In early 2017, Chris Krycho was working at one of the few startups using Ember, searching for a way to bring types to the emerging language. His primary goal became solving semantic versioning for TS. As Chris kept iterating, striving to combine multiple programming worlds, other engineers joined him in the pursuit until eventually, the Ember TypeScript Core team was born.
Today, Chris is a lead engineer at LinkedIn, a father, husband, runner, music composer, and whiskey enthusiast. His current goal is to ensure Ember Polaris has first-class TypeScript support. Aside from offering new dad advice to Robbie, Chris also describes what can become a superpower for new developers willing to work.
In this episode, Chris talks with Chuck and Robbie about best-case uses for TypeScript, a defense of complicated library code, Chris’ ultimate goal with software engineering, and his advice for programmers on the rise.
[16:27] - “TypeScript support is pretty essential to modern web development. Even if you’re not using TypeScript in your web app, you are using TypeScript because under the hood, all of the tooling that exists across the ecosystem, more or less, uses TypeScript.” ~ @chriskrycho
[19:39] - “There’s no project in which TypeScript is necessary. There are very few projects in which it might not be useful, but that’s going to depend on your team, your coding style, your mental frame, your background, etc.” ~ @chriskrycho
[60:45] - “Getting deep on subject matter as well as having a general breadth is a really powerful one-two punch in terms of being able to grow as an engineer, to actually understand what you’re working on.” ~ @chriskrycho
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Robbie Wagner: [00:09] Welcome to Whiskey Web and Whatnot. It's been a little bit since we've had an episode. We mentioned a couple of episodes ago, I don't even remember when, and we recorded that, that I was having a baby. And was going to be gone. We're back now. We since have.
Chuck Carpenter: [00:24] Did it hurt?
Robbie Wagner: [00:25] No, it didn't hurt me.
Chris Krycho: [00:27] That was the joke I was going to make.
Chuck Carpenter: [00:29] Yeah, we had a baby is what you're supposed to say. You're still learning. We had a baby. Not me and you, but you and your wife.
Robbie Wagner: [00:36] Yes.
Chuck Carpenter: [00:37] You and your partner. Yeah.
Robbie Wagner: [00:38] I mean, political correctness is never my strong suit, but anyway, yeah. Charles. Charles William Carpenter III, the third. My co host, as always. And our guest today, Chris is it Krycho?
Chris Krycho: [00:49] You got it right.
Robbie Wagner: [00:50] Cool.
Chuck Carpenter: [00:51] Krycho. I was like, Krycho? Kraken.
Chris Krycho: [00:57] Krycho.
Chuck Carpenter: [00:57] Yeah, Kraken.
Chris Krycho: [00:59] It's okay. There are people I've known for half a decade around the Ember community who still can't get it right, who go with Kry-Ko every time i'm like, nope, it's Cho. It's Krycho. It's okay.
Robbie Wagner: [01:09] Chris, do you want to tell people just a quick couple sentences about who you are and what you do?
Chris Krycho: [01:15] Yeah. So, I am currently a software engineer working at LinkedIn, one of the leads for the flagship web app there, which is what most people think of when they think of LinkedIn. We have a bunch of other nontrivial apps as well, things for recruiters and businesses and LinkedIn Learning and all sorts of things. But the big, big one is the flagship app, and I'm one of the tech leads for that. I'm also a dad, a husband. Those things are more important than my day job. But when I'm not doing those things, I run, I compose music. Sometimes I drink whiskey. So I have some here as a courtesy of these people, which is fun. I don't normally do that at 3 pm, but it's 3 pm here, and I'm on a Whiskey web and whatnot, so I couldn't skip it.
Chuck Carpenter: [02:07] Yeah. It is almost required for anyone. Maybe if you were as famous as Kent C. Dodds, we'd let it go. But since you're Krycho you have to drink with us. It's 2 O'clock for me, so I feel your pain.
Chris Krycho: [02:19] It's early.
Robbie Wagner: [02:19] Yeah, it's five here, so.
Chuck Carpenter: [02:22] Yeah. Somewhere always is somewhere, isn't it? That's what they say.
Robbie Wagner: [02:25] What can you do?
Chuck Carpenter: [02:26] Let's talk a little bit about this whiskey. This would be the Old Forester 1920, Prohibition Style. Although Robbie, you took the notes on it, so I think maybe you should talk about it.
Robbie Wagner: [02:35] Yeah. You want me to chat about the whiskey for one of the first times ever?
Chuck Carpenter: [02:39] Yeah.
Robbie Wagner: [02:40] Yeah, so this I found out the Prohibition Style is not just hype. It was actually made all the way through Prohibition. The Volstead Act of 1920 allowed six distillers to actually continue distilling for medicinal purposes during Prohibition.
Chris Krycho: [02:58] So this is medicinal whiskey.
Robbie Wagner: [03:01] This is stuff like Churchill would probably drink because I know he had a card for, like, he could drink anywhere during Prohibition.
Chuck Carpenter: [03:07] Right. Strange how that went.
Chris Krycho: [03:09] Churchill.
Robbie Wagner: [03:10] Yeah. When he would travel.
Chris Krycho: [03:11] Or Roosevelt.
Robbie Wagner: [03:13] No, Churchill.
Chuck Carpenter: [03:14] Churchill. He had a pass as, like, a point. Okay. Yeah. That's interesting stuff. So, yeah, you would use it for, like, a cough or a light cold, things like that.
Chris Krycho: [03:24] That does actually work. It is good for that.
Chuck Carpenter: [03:27] Yeah. As a Kentucky native, you learn that it's also good for babies if they are teething. That's what we used it for.
Robbie Wagner: [03:37] Sure.
Chris Krycho: [03:37] Throw a little on your finger.
Chuck Carpenter: [03:39] Yes. Very small amounts.
Chris Krycho: [03:41] Only a little.
Chuck Carpenter: [03:42] Don't let your baby chug the bottles.
Chris Krycho: [03:43] Let's be very clear.
Robbie Wagner: [03:46] Everything during Prohibition had to be bottled. I said bottled. I didn't mean bottled barrels. Put in the barrel at 100 proof. And then so, this became 115 proof after aging. Its mash bill is 72% corn, 18% rye, and 10% malted barley.
Chuck Carpenter: [04:03] Yeah, that's all I got. The corn is strong in this one. Okay. I'm going to do a little maple syrup on the smell. Yeah, it's got some hug, I think.
Robbie Wagner: [04:16] Yeah, it's a big bear hug.
Chuck Carpenter: [04:18] You gotta chew it first. Come on. We were taught chew your whiskey.
Robbie Wagner: [04:22] I forgot about the technique.
Chuck Carpenter: [04:24] We're in Nashville.
Chris Krycho: [04:25] Get the mouthfeel a bit.
Chuck Carpenter: [04:26] Went to Green Brier in Nashville. I've been to a lot of distilleries. This is the first place that told you to chew it so that you activate your salivatory glands. Get it, to, and then your next year to be able to taste a little better. Yeah.
Chris Krycho: [04:39] Which I think works. Today I learned.
Chuck Carpenter: [04:42] It's the only thing I'll ever teach you in life. I'm no staff engineer at LinkedIn, but I do know something about whiskey.
Chris Krycho: [04:52] It's probably good. That's not a qualifier for knowing something about whiskey. You're not allowed to know unless you reach a certain rank at a certain company. Seems unhelpful.
Chuck Carpenter: [05:03] Yeah. Like Master Distiller at Four Roses. Then you get to know something. That's it.
Chris Krycho: [05:08] Yeah. Then you get to know things.
Chuck Carpenter: [05:10] All right, I'm good. Yeah. I definitely feel like a leathery bit on the finish. A little, maybe I want to say like orange rind, citrus rind, something like that. Like that bitterness in there, too, for me.
Robbie Wagner: [05:25] Yeah. I would describe it as like a very bourbony sweet, classic bourbon on the initial taste, then tons and tons of alcohol, and then the punch of the rye at the end. You get a little bit of spice at the end.
Chuck Carpenter: [05:40] Yeah.
Chris Krycho: [05:41] Gives it just a little heat on the back end of it. That was what surprised me when I first tasted it, actually, is it starts out very sweet, and it ends not sweet at all.
Chuck Carpenter: [05:54] Listen, this is medicinal bourbon.
Chris Krycho: [05:57] You don't want it to taste good going down.
Chuck Carpenter: [05:59] A spoonful of sugar.
Chris Krycho: [06:00] You want it to burn your throat.
Chuck Carpenter: [06:02] Exactly. Whatever's in here, let's just get rid of that. Burn it up. Probably going to have some heartburn. Take care of the rest. Sounds right.
Robbie Wagner: [06:09] Yeah, but it.
Chris Krycho: [06:11] it's good.
Robbie Wagner: [06:11] It's good. Yeah, I enjoy it. So we do a tentacle rating system, if you're not familiar, Chris.
Chris Krycho: [06:18] I am not.
Robbie Wagner: [06:19] It is one to eight tentacles. One being the worst ever, eight being like the best possible whiskey. And I think I would give this one a seven. I'm a pretty good fan of this one.
Chris Krycho: [06:30] Pretty positive.
Chuck Carpenter: [06:31] Yeah. I mean, I am coming into this bias because I have had this before, perhaps more than once, and I like it. It's my favorite of their, so they have, I don't know, four or five different ones that are recipes from different times in their history. And this one is by far my favorite ones. My go-to would grab, given those choices. So it's a solid seven to eight for me. It's like pretty great. Especially the price point. Somewhere around $60 bucks.
Robbie Wagner: [06:57] 8 was mentioned.
Chuck Carpenter: [06:58] I know.
Robbie Wagner: [06:59] The first time ever.
Chuck Carpenter: [07:00] I think it's time to let the no-fully identified cephalopod to branch out. All of them. So let's just say I'm going to give it an eight.
Chris Krycho: [07:13] Alright.
Chuck Carpenter: [07:13] Yeah, I like it. You should buy it. $60 bucks. It's good.
Robbie Wagner: [07:17] Chris, what are your thoughts?
Chris Krycho: [07:18] Do I have to give a rating?
Chuck Carpenter: [07:20] Yeah. Do you want to opt-out?
Chris Krycho: [07:22] I agree that you would probably enjoy it. If you like whiskey. I don't know if I could give it a seven or an eight, but some of that's because my tastes run to sweeter, and the back end on it is good, but it's not going to fall into one of my favorites of all time. It's going to be more like, yeah, I'll have that on the rocks occasionally kind of drink. So I would probably put it in the four to five range. Not because there's anything wrong with it, but just kind of a solid middle-of-the-road good. Didn't blow my mind.
Chuck Carpenter: [07:54] The sage advice I was given once by a retired tour guide at a distillery was the best whiskey is the one you like. So if that's a $300 or whatever, or if it's at the time, Weller was only like $20 $25. It was like, if it's $20, Weller, then that's great. He said in that accent too, so it made me believe him more. What is your seven?
Chris Krycho: [08:19] That's a hard question. Probably my seven would be the Glenlivet 14 year. Just a really sweet highland scotch. And it's very drinkable. Got a lot of floral to it. Very good. If I'm going to just grab a random glass on a weekend evening or whatever, I'll probably grab something like. I don't know. I love a good Four Roses just for a very baseline, but I wouldn't call that a Seven. I'd call that like my six. It's just like this is not expensive. This is very solid, very reliable. I know exactly what I'm getting every time. It's good.
Chuck Carpenter: [08:55] Yeah, I love a Four Roses Single Barrel. You can pick it up at Costco for like $35 bucks. You're like, yes, why wouldn't I do this?
Chris Krycho: [09:03] The value for price of taste to price ratio there is about as high as I've found anywhere. It's very good.
Chuck Carpenter: [09:12] Yeah, I agree with that. It's a beautiful property, too. If you ever find yourself, have you been?
Chris Krycho: [09:18] I have not, but I have heard that.
Chuck Carpenter: [09:19] Yeah. If you find yourself in Kentucky for whatever reason, if not the Bourbon Trail, then I would suggest dashing off for like that and a couple of others.
Chris Krycho: [09:30] Noted.
Robbie Wagner: [09:31] Do they have more than Four Roses on the property? They just keep four.
Chuck Carpenter: [09:35] They murder the rest of them and keep only the four strongest roses. There's a rose battle. Battle of the roses or whatever. Isn't that thing? I don't know.
Chris Krycho: [09:44] Sounds right.
Chuck Carpenter: [09:46] Race of the Rose runs at the Derby. When you win the Derby, it's actually the big rose. I don't know. So there's some sort of rose analogy there that I'm losing. We should probably talk about tech things before it goes down.
Chris Krycho: [10:01] Yeah, the terrible.
Robbie Wagner: [10:02] Well, before we get there, I have a very important question. So we've had a lot of Chris's on. Over half of them have been not actually named Chris.
Chris Krycho: [10:10] No, I'm a Chris. Okay. I'm actually Chris. But now I want to know who wasn't actually named Chris. I'm going to listen to all the episodes.
Robbie Wagner: [10:18] Runspired is not Chris. Who is the other one? Chris Manson is not Chris, either.
Chris Krycho: [10:24] So on the Manson and Runspired episode, you had two Chris's who aren't actually Chris's.
Chuck Carpenter: [10:29] Right.
Robbie Wagner: [10:30] Correct.
Chris Krycho: [10:31] Lies all the way down.
Chuck Carpenter: [10:33] It's called marketing. It's not lies.
Chris Krycho: [10:35] In one of the Discord chats during Ember conf this year, somebody made the joke, is LinkedIn taking over Ember? And we all said, no, of course not. And then somebody said, the truth is the Chris's are taking over Ember. And we said that might actually be true. There are many of us.
Chuck Carpenter: [10:55] There are, yeah.
Robbie Wagner: [10:57] So anyway, that kind of brings me some of my next things. I have been out, as I mentioned, we had a baby recently.
Chris Krycho: [11:06] Good job.
Chuck Carpenter: [11:06] There you go. Excellent.
Chris Krycho: [11:07] That's how you say it.
Robbie Wagner: [11:08] So I missed Ember conf. I missed kind of this whole TypeScript core team being announced thing. Tell me about how that came about. Like, where did the TypeScript core team come from?
Chuck Carpenter: [18:56] No, I think this is good. I think that that helps us. Well, I mean, we have some notes, but we make up most of it on the fly.
Chris Krycho: [19:01] Oh, yeah, same.
Chuck Carpenter: [19:04] So Robbie frequently likes to be like, okay, but what about the opposite, right? So my thoughts here on this is that you're a subject matter expert in implementing this in enterprise-level applications, on down, that kind of stuff. When's the time I know you were saying like, whether you do it or not, you're using it, but when is the time that this TypeScript isn't necessary? When would you say, like, it's egregious for your project?
Chris Krycho: [19:30] The answer to that is maybe subtler than is comfortable for a lot of folks. It might be surprising coming for me. There's no project in which TypeScript is necessary. There are very few projects in which it might not be useful, but that's going to depend on your team, your coding style, your mental frame, your background, etc. The riff on some of the conversation that the Chris's, Manson, and Runspired had Chris Runspired is not his name. But maybe it should be.
Chuck Carpenter: [20:01] Maybe it should be. He's going to be like Prince. He's changing it. He's not Runspired anymore.
Robbie Wagner: [20:08] That's his new Twitter, not Runspired.
Chuck Carpenter: [24:00] All right, hold on. And may I give you a quick pause there? Because I'm getting old.
Chris Krycho: [24:05] Yes.
Chuck Carpenter: [24:06] And I will forget things.
Chris Krycho: [24:08] Please pause me however often you need to.
Chuck Carpenter: [24:10] Yeah. And now, I'm up to four points that I want to interject into. First of all.
Robbie Wagner: [24:14] I have points as well.
Chuck Carpenter: [24:16] Are you saying that Microsoft hasn't required you as your mothership to use TypeScript?
Chris Krycho: [24:23] 100% No, two things that folks should know.
Chuck Carpenter: [24:25] That was more of a joke. I'm just going to tell you.
Chris Krycho: [24:27] No, it's actually really important. And I've had some interesting conversations with VPMs, and some of the tech leads for TypeScript at Microsoft. They on the TypeScript project in particular. Do not push anybody in Microsoft. There's no pressure in Microsoft itself. There's no pressure in any of Microsoft subsidiaries, which at this point include GitHub and us and.
Robbie Wagner: [24:49] Everything.
Chris Krycho: [24:50] Via GitHub and NPM. There's no pressure to use TypeScript. They want TypeScript to be so good. There you go. That teams adopted organically.
Robbie Wagner: [24:58] Yeah, spoilers. That's what's happening. Well.
Chuck Carpenter: [25:01] And that's it. So that is just like, let's just have a good product, and people will want to have uptake even internally. So that's a good one.
Robbie Wagner: [25:08] Can I say something real quick?
Chuck Carpenter: [25:09] Okay, sorry.
Robbie Wagner: [25:10] I just wanted to say.
Chuck Carpenter: [25:11] I'm definitely going to forget at least one of them.
Robbie Wagner: [25:13] We don't have to talk fully about this right now. You can come back to your point, but didn't Microsoft open the proposal for Types in vanilla JS? Yes, and that's different than Typescript. So it's like, again, not that they didn't believe in types, but it doesn't have to be TypeScript.
Robbie Wagner: [26:05] Right. Sorry, Chuck, you can go back to whatever you're saying.
Chuck Carpenter: [26:08] It's hard to say what was going to happen there originally. Oh, you were talking about like dynamic, and the other way to do it is essentially have good documentation, go down the JS doc path, and make it very verbose in different ways without enforcing that. But yeah. I was going to say I think that that is probably one of the like, even with smaller projects or smaller teams where you might say like. Oh. We don't need this enforcement. But it's like, in a way, self-documented code because, as practitioners, we know how to read this, and we know what that means, and you can sort of like trace all of that without having to say this function expects Arg number. Actually you're saying it's Arg number, so I definitely agree with that in that sense. You've mentioned a couple of different times. So are you like former Python person?
Chuck Carpenter: [27:44] Interesting. How many of those personal projects or personal learning experiences happened before versus after you had children?
Chris Krycho: [27:53] That is a very good question. Roughly half and half. I did more of that, to be fair when my children were younger as they've come into kind of elementary school age, which is the age they are now. They're turning ten and eight this month.
Chuck Carpenter: [28:06] Oh wow.
Chris Krycho: [28:07] I've had much less time for that because I am going to piano recitals instead, and it just makes a lot of sense. And their bedtimes are later. Our family times run longer. You know when your kids are in bed at seven and don't get up till seven? That's some time between when they go to bed and when I go to bed. Now they go to bed more like eight to eight. Like they get in bed at eight, and they don't go to sleep till 8:30 if they go to bed when they should, and maybe it's nine, and they might be out, and it's a lot fewer. Hours when I'm still awake.
Chuck Carpenter: [28:38] Yes.
Chris Krycho: [28:38] Okay.
Chuck Carpenter: [28:39] That actually brings me to another question. As a new father, what advice would you give Robbie?
Chris Krycho: [28:45] That's a really interesting question. In general, I only give people two pieces of advice there, and one of them is, I'm a Christian, so, like, I think that following God and teaching your kids to is important. And the second piece of advice I have is expect change. And literally, any other advice I can give you is useless pretty quickly because A, every kid is very different. We have two kids, and they're polar opposites of each other. But I have a friend who had seven kids, and he and his wife like to say that all of their children are completely opposite of all of each other. And yes, that means you're talking seven-dimensional geometry. But in my experience with my own and other people's kids, it's accurate. And so you can't really generalize other than be patient and expect change. And they expect change part is the big part because you just start getting comfortable, like, okay, we've got a rhythm down. We know what we're doing now. We kind of have a feel for this. And they change, and you repeat that process over and over and over again. Sometimes you get like three months where you're like. We kind of got this now. And then they changed. We always ask our kids bigger inside. And they say yes. And you can tell sometimes when they're newborns, you can tell, oh, they stopped sleeping for a week. They just went through some kind of big mental transition. And you can tell these days at eight and ten almost. They're more like they're extremely moody for two weeks. What is, oh, right? They're going through some mental transition. Okay. Get to learn how to do this over again. Every time.
Chuck Carpenter: [30:17] There we go. Excellent. Yeah.
Robbie Wagner: [30:19] I think we maybe mentioned it before on another podcast, but I think a common thread that's kind of similar is everyone says all advice, just forget all of it because it doesn't matter. It's basically like. There's only so much you can do, and you're going to figure it out. It's fine.
Chuck Carpenter: [30:37] Yeah. If only human beings were just like carbon copies. And then it would be like. This thing always works, but.
Chris Krycho: [30:44] Not how it goes at all. No, you're like, you love hot dogs. You love hot dogs. Here's a hot dog.
Chuck Carpenter: [30:50] I hate hot dogs.
Chris Krycho: [30:50] I don't want this hot dog. I hate hot dogs. Throw it on the floor. That is the sort of thing.
Chuck Carpenter: [30:56] Oh, yeah.
Robbie Wagner: [30:58] So, to circle back for a minute, I think the only problem I have with TypeScript consistently is when the add-ons or things I'm using do it wrong. So I have like 50 TypeScript errors, and I can't fix them because they're in. I could PR in The Fix, but they're in another library, and I'm a novice at TypeScripts. I don't really know. I think there's like a flag where you can say ignore stuff from packages, but I think when I do that, it breaks more stuff somehow. Do you have any advice on what to do in those kind of situations?
Robbie Wagner: [37:13] Yeah, that makes sense.
Chuck Carpenter: [37:14] I like that you're not judging people for not doing that.
Chris Krycho: [37:18] No, I mean, it's hard, right? My tone may have sounded frustrated there, but it's legitimately hard. And nobody had done.
Robbie Wagner: [37:25] Oh yeah.
Chris Krycho: [37:25] Up to this point, the work to say, here's what it actually looks like to do it. And in the same way that specifying SemVer a decade ago really gave the industry a useful tool for saying, here's how we think about this. Here's how to communicate this. And we're not going to be perfect about it, but we establish the terms of the contract, and then we try to uphold them, and sometimes we end up SemVer lawyering, but most of the time we just say, this is what we're trying to keep, and it's fine. Same thing for TypeScript, and people haven't had guidance on how to do that yet. So our hope is, hey, now you have some guidance, and you can follow it.
Chuck Carpenter: [38:00] I don't mistake your tone for anything negative as much as I do for passion. And I suppose like you said, you've described an easy five, six years of effort going into that, so those would align for me in any way. And as soon as you convert Robbie, I believe that it's legit.
Chris Krycho: [38:18] I'll take that as my next project.
Robbie Wagner: [38:21] I don't like when it causes me a lot of extra work, and that's probably just because I'm not that experienced in it. So if there's a thing and I need to find the type of a thing, that's the type of another thing that's extended from a thing that also is a thing that can sometimes be a thing, then I'm like, yeah, and that is tough. And you have like ten lines of just your types and I'm like, okay, that was too much work.
Chuck Carpenter: [38:49] Yeah, well, I also think that that is an artifact of our business type versus what Chris is doing. Like, you are in an enterprise with multiple products, and this is your home, and you get a long time to make that trajectory. Right? We come in for a bit, and we're like, what can we do to make this better for you? Right? Like, business objectives and all that kind of stuff. And sometimes it's like untangled that mess. Is it worth it? No, you guys put it here, so we'll work with that. But the business objective is something else anyway, so we should focus more on that than fixing this. Not really anyone ever tells us to come in and fix types. Maybe it's implementing from nothing or maybe it's just ignore that and do this other thing, but I think that is probably more of what it is too.
Robbie Wagner: [43:46] Yeah, I think that's a lot of the problems that I have. Let's Pivot here to tell me about what a first-class component template is.
Chris Krycho: [43:55] First-class component templates is not JSX. That's the first thing I'm going to say about it.
Robbie Wagner: [44:01] Good.
Chris Krycho: [44:02] I'll tell you a secret. I actually like TSX and JSX. Don't anyone come after me with pitchforks.
Robbie Wagner: [44:07] All right we're out of time.
Chris Krycho: [44:08] Yes.
Chuck Carpenter: [44:11] I don't care enough, and I like trolling Robbie.
Robbie Wagner: [47:39] I just want to pause you right there real quick.
Chuck Carpenter: [47:42] Thank you.
Chris Krycho: [47:42] Yes.
Chuck Carpenter: [47:43] You know, we've been drinking.
Chris Krycho: [47:44] It's true.
Robbie Wagner: [47:45] So, will you be able to still do the current way with the colocated templates?
Chris Krycho: [47:50] For now.
Chuck Carpenter: [47:51] Okay.
Chuck Carpenter: [52:10] Got you.
Robbie Wagner: [52:11] Yeah, that sounds interesting. So we have just a few minutes left here, so let's pivot to something not tech related. You said you compose some music. Tell me about that. What kind of music do you write?
Chris Krycho: [52:25] I have written a lot of different kinds of music over the years, but it's all roughly in the kind of contemporary classical idiom.
Robbie Wagner: [52:33] So is it for one instrument specifically like piano, or is it for a bunch of stuff?
Chris Krycho: [52:39] It varies.
Robbie Wagner: [52:40] Okay.
Chris Krycho: [52:40] I have written solo works and chamber works and orchestra works and everything in between. So I started composing back in late middle school. I think 8th grade was the first time I wrote something end to end. And I actually did the equivalent of a music minor when I was in college at the University of Oklahoma a long time ago. When I was there. They did not offer music minors. Now they do. It's kind of annoying because if you look at the coursework that they do for music minors, I would have one, but they didn't do it then. I just had to get special permission.
Chuck Carpenter: [53:11] You should write them.
Chris Krycho: [53:12] Hey, give me a minor retrospectively.
Chuck Carpenter: [53:15] You should write them and say, can I get one? Yeah. I mean, celebrities get it all the time.
Chris Krycho: [53:20] It doesn't actually matter, right? It's not useful.
Chuck Carpenter: [53:23] Still be validating.
Chris Krycho: [53:26] I mostly write orchestral works. Or I may be writing some things for smaller chamber groups in the community around here. I know a bunch of musicians now that I didn't know a year ago who have interesting little ensemble groups that I could be composing for, and I would like to. So if you go to Spotify or Apple Music or whatever, you can find one piece of music that I put up on all of those. It's a fanfare that I wrote when SpaceX launched people for the first time and launched the Crew Dragon demo 1 flight when they went to the ISS. I was really inspired by that because it was really cool that we were actually sending American astronauts to space on American rockets for the first time in a decade. And SpaceX was doing some really cool stuff to make that happen. So I wrote a fanfare for that.
Chuck Carpenter: [54:16] Nice.
Chris Krycho: [54:16] And you can hear the kinds of things I write. And I also have a SoundCloud that's my tweet, right? Check out my SoundCloud. It's hilarious to me that that's the thing that people do. But it is a thing that people do. And I do have one in every place. You can find me online. It's Chris Krycho. So it's SoundCloud.com/ChrisKrycho. Turns out that Krycho, as we alluded to at the beginning, is a unique name. It is literally a unique name. In the case of Chris Krycho, it is a globally unique identifier. There's only one. So I always get whatever handle I always get that handle on any new service because there are no other Chris Krychos literally anywhere on the planet.
Chuck Carpenter: [54:52] No competition there.
Chris Krycho: [54:54] It's kind of nice.
Chuck Carpenter: [54:54] Yeah.
Robbie Wagner: [54:55] Not the same for Chris Garrett. He had to make up his own thing to be Zuraq.
Chris Krycho: [54:59] Zuraq, yes.
Chuck Carpenter: [55:03] That reminds me. I feel like I have been really into Hot Ones over the last few months, and so I probably watch like an episode at least every couple of weeks. And so that's what I was going to say. It's like this camera, this camera, this camera, tell the people what you got going on. If you've ever seen that, that will make sense for you.
Chris Krycho: [55:20] I have not.
Chuck Carpenter: [55:21] You haven't?
Chris Krycho: [55:22] I have no idea.
Chuck Carpenter: [55:23] All right, so I'm going to TLDR you? So it is an interview show. And it's like interviewer celebrity person. They have ten wings incrementally. The wings get hotter, but actually, the interviewer is very good. Anyway, he's asking very interesting questions, and obviously, the stakes get a little higher as their mouth is on fire. And they're like, oh, I don't know what the PR person told me. And there's some really funny ones, too. And at the end, he's like, yeah, he says that.
Chris Krycho: [55:53] That sounds like torture.
Chuck Carpenter: [55:56] I like theme parties. Haven't done one in a very long time because I'm just tired.
Chris Krycho: [55:59] Fair.
Chuck Carpenter: [56:00] But I would do a hot ones party. Let me set up ten wings. And then the conversation just scales up as our mouths are on fire.
Robbie Wagner: [56:10] I would come to that party.
Chuck Carpenter: [56:12] Okay.
Chris Krycho: [56:13] I would not.
Chuck Carpenter: [56:13] We'll plan it.
Chris Krycho: [56:14] I would hear about it, and I would laugh about it.
Chuck Carpenter: [56:16] Yeah, we'll do a special podcast episode. Which reminds me, you should do either. A blog or a podcast where it's like, how people work, how techies work because you were talking about how do people work, and that's a real interesting, definitive breakdown from the software, your workflow, your style, where do you start to break down a problem and where does it end up? I think that would be really interesting. I just don't want to do it, so you're welcome.
Chris Krycho: [56:41] That's my problem too. I did the podcasting thing and then see earlier part of conversation where I don't do as many things anymore because my children are in elementary school now.
Chuck Carpenter: [56:49] It's true. Yeah.
Chris Krycho: [56:51] Current status.
Chuck Carpenter: [56:52] I just want to be internet famous, and I appreciate a couple of hundred people checking it out. We were on Shop Talk show recently, though, so I feel like we might be legit. I don't know.
Robbie Wagner: [57:03] Yeah, people have at least heard us. They might not follow us. But that's special.
Chuck Carpenter: [57:07] Yeah. People have been like, Why did you do this? Because I know Chris's wife and she made him. I think that's why.
Chris Krycho: [57:15] That's a good way in. That's always a good way in.
Robbie Wagner: [57:17] Yeah, I emailed him before you reached out to him and got no response. So it's definitely from your connection.
Chuck Carpenter: [57:24] Yeah, I texted her and was just like, yeah, what up? Will you ask Chris if we can be on or if you want to be on our show? I'll give him free whiskey, and then people are like, no one's going to see this anyway. Fine. That's how I imagine it goes. I have no idea.
Chris Krycho: [57:39] Yeah, I like it.
Robbie Wagner: [57:40] We're about out of time here, but just real quick, any other, like developers or projects you're really interested in or anything you want to plug or let the people know about?
Robbie Wagner: [01:01:28] No assembly.
Chris Krycho: [01:01:29] But being willing to say why does this work? Or why does this not work, can take you a very long way.
Robbie Wagner: [01:01:37] Yeah, that's great advice. I mean, the Ember code is very interesting to read. I'll say that I've tried many times, and I still don't understand it, but there's always a level deeper that you can go that is comfortable. You don't have to go as deep as once you start to feel really bad, you can jump right out. But yeah, always question it, figure out the underlying things. Great advice. So we're out of time here. Thanks, Chris, for being on.
Chris Krycho: [01:02:04] Thanks for having me.
Robbie Wagner: [01:02:05] If you guys liked it, please subscribe, and we'll catch you guys next time.
Chuck Carpenter: [01:02:12] Thanks for listening to Whiskey Web and Whatnot. This podcast is brought to you by Ship Shape, and produced by Podcast Royale. If you liked this episode, consider sharing it with a friend or two and leave us a rating and maybe a review, as long as it's good.
Robbie Wagner: [01:02:27] You can subscribe to future episodes on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more info about Ship Shape, and this show, check out our website at shipshape.io.