79: Features of Astro 2.0, Challenge of Material UI, and Cleanse Diets

Robbie Wagner: [00:09] Welcome to another episode of Whiskey Web and Whatnot with myself, Robbie Wagner, and my co-host as always Charles William Carpenter III. What's going on, Chuck?

Chuck Carpenter: [00:25] You know, it's oddly Winterish here in Arizona, so I'm just trying to get right with that. I, as we'll talk about later, was in Florida over the weekend, where it was 70 and 80 degrees, and then I came back to Phoenix to freeze. For some odd reason, it's actually gotten to freezing levels at night, and our highs have been in the low 50s with very little humidity, which means bur cold.

Robbie Wagner: [00:50] Yeah, I see that a Todd Snyder sweater I see there.

Chuck Carpenter: [00:55] Yes. As a cricket-style or tennis-style sweater, depending upon what side of the pond you're from. This is why I said the the dream of the 90s is alive and well because I was wearing these things in high school. In the 90s, it's all come around. Chunky shoes again, too.

Robbie Wagner: [01:09] Yeah. The styles these days are not exactly what I would approve of. I guess the male ones are okay, but I don't know. Like, mom jeans being cool again is kind of odd to me, but whatever.

Chuck Carpenter: [01:21] It's disappointing. Well, I don't think they were originally branded in that way, so that was probably part of the initial appeal. And then those women got older and became moms and were still wearing those jeans, and then ergo, mom jeans.

Robbie Wagner: [01:34] That's true.

Chuck Carpenter: [01:34] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [01:35] That logic tracks.

Chuck Carpenter: [01:37] Now, we could just call them future mom jeans, but then I don't want to make assumptions for people.

Robbie Wagner: [01:41] That's true.

Chuck Carpenter: [01:42] All right, so let's talk about whiskey. Do you want to talk about this one?

Robbie Wagner: [01:45] I could. This is the Very Olde St. Nick Ancient Cask, eight-year-old rare rye whiskey. There's a lot of words in that that evoke it being fancy, but I feel like they're just trying to pretend like they're a Pappy or something. Like, I don't really know. It seems like fake Pappy, in my opinion.

Chuck Carpenter: [02:05] Right, yeah. Well, so interesting thing about this brand is that it and now it says it was bottled in Bardstown. This brand has been around for a while, and it was, like, originally a California company that developed a brand or picked up the brand and then was sourcing whiskey to primarily sell in the Japanese market because that used to be the place where bourbon was the most prominent and popular. Less so here. Obviously, things have changed. So I think this brand has just sort of evolved over time with that similar story. I don't know that they are distilling anything themselves, but the preservation distillery is the place out of Bardstown, although it says product of Canada, so it sounds like it's a sourced rye. One weird part here I hadn't noticed. It says caramel coloring. That's concerning.

Robbie Wagner: [02:57] Yeah, I didn't notice that.

**Chuck Carpenter:**c[02:59] So it's 82.8 proof. Also concerning. So maybe I just picked the wrong one, but because I knew the brand from back in the day when it was sourced out of Kentucky and like really good shit. I was like, oh, now it's back and a little more popular, possibly. And let's grab one. We'll see if we grab them.

Robbie Wagner: [03:19] Where does it say caramel color?

Chuck Carpenter: [03:20] It says it in the lower right. Really small font underneath the barcode. Probably like a half inch or so.

Robbie Wagner: [03:27] Mine doesn't say it interesting.

Chuck Carpenter: [03:29] Well, good for you. Do you have the one that is 82.8 proof?

Robbie Wagner: [03:33] Yes, from lot number ten.

Chuck Carpenter: [03:36] Oh, wait, I don't think I have a lot. Where's your lot number?

Robbie Wagner: [03:39] On the top part where it has the eight-year thing.

Chuck Carpenter: [03:43] Yeah, I don't have that.

Robbie Wagner: [03:45] Maybe you got a fake one.

Chuck Carpenter: [03:46] Yeah, maybe I did get a fake one. Interesting.

Robbie Wagner: [03:49] Or maybe I did.

Chuck Carpenter: [03:50] You have the one with caramel coloring? We'll see if, as long as it's the same proof and stuff. And does it say product of Canada underneath their bottled and their address?

Robbie Wagner: [04:00] No or yes.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:02] Okay. Olde St. Nick Distillery, Bardstown?

Robbie Wagner: [04:05] Yes.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:06] Okay.

Robbie Wagner: [04:06] Product of Canada.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:07] Right.

Robbie Wagner: [04:08] Which doesn't really make any sense, but okay.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:11] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [04:12] All right, let's smell this thing.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:13] Let's smell. It doesn't smell like much.

Robbie Wagner: [04:17] Maybe because of the 80 proof.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:20] It's mild. It's got some coloring to it, though. But I think that's caramel color, and it might be like influencing me, but I have like a little bit of brown sugar and spice. Kind of slight, though it is mellow.

Robbie Wagner: [04:34] Yeah, I could say, see, like a cinnamon tea or something a little bit.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:40] Yeah, maybe like a tea, like herbally kind of. Alright, I'm going to do a swish. Hope you got that sound effect. And I will reveal more later. I'm doing a particular diet. Currently, it doesn't allow me to imbibe in alcohol, so I'm spitting it out, sacrilege. But I'm now feeling like it's not such a big deal on this one.

Robbie Wagner: [05:06] Yeah, it's not fantastic. I'm trying to get some flavor notes here. Very bitter, like orange rind on the end there. Really nothing but that. It tastes like you just took a bunch of orange grinds and boiled them for a while.

Chuck Carpenter: [05:27] That's an interesting description. I was feeling bitter also around experiencing some bitter and some, again, still slightly herbal like herbs, like maybe a tinge of something like rosemary or something in there, and then it's just kind of burned.

Robbie Wagner: [05:46] Yeah, there's a little bit of herby freshness. Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [05:48] Yeah, citrus rind, I would say, a little herbalish and then quite a bit of burn for a low proof. Maybe this is just me and my lack of actual food and drink the last two days.

Robbie Wagner: [05:59] It's kind of like if you were making like a mulled cider and you had, say, some kind of spice and some oranges and things you were going to put in there. And then, instead of the good part, like the inside of the orange and the good part of the spices, you use the leftovers and threw them in like a whiskey barrel. It's kind of what it tastes like.

Chuck Carpenter: [06:21] Yeah. Because you can get like the zest, right? If you zest in a little bit of the skin, and you get some of that without so much of the bitterness. I forget what they call that, the white part of.

Robbie Wagner:[06:30] The gross part.

Chuck Carpenter: [06:31] Rind or skin there. Yeah, the gross part. Okay.

Robbie Wagner: [06:33] Yeah. I don't know. Scientific term.

Chuck Carpenter: [06:35] Yeah. Fill in a blank there. We'll edit in the right word later.

Robbie Wagner: [06:39] Yeah. So I think this one was pretty pricey if I recall correctly.

Chuck Carpenter: [06:43] So yes, I believe in the 150 range.

Robbie Wagner: [06:47] With that in mind, I'm going to give it a three.

Chuck Carpenter: [06:50] Yeah. I'm fairly disappointed. I mean, it has some interesting notes to it that you probably can turn into a decent cocktail, but then this is a pretty expensive cocktail whiskey to put together into it, so, yeah, I could drink it. It will probably not get wasted. But that said, maybe. And again, oh, I've got a little water. I'm going to experiment with some water and then spit it back out again, of course. But yeah, right now, as is, I am feeling three is probably as good as it gets.

Robbie Wagner: [07:25] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [07:26] So I'll give it a second here with some water and swish that around. But smell doesn't change.

Robbie Wagner: [07:32] Yeah, it's probably the most disappointing rye I've had, I think, trying to remember if there was another rye we had where we were like, oh, this is trash, but I don't recall one.

Chuck Carpenter: [07:44] So it gets a little better with a couple of drops of water. It reduces the bitter a little and gives it almost like a caramelized orange. So you're still getting that orange citrus kind of thing, but it almost gives it now it's drawn up a little bit of the sweetness. Just a smidge.

Robbie Wagner: [08:01] All right, well, I'll try this one on ice later, maybe.

Chuck Carpenter: [08:04] Yeah, I'd almost go four. I'd say it bumped up one. It's not great. I'm not going to chase it down for this price because I think it's not interesting enough for that. But yeah, I think it took some of the bitter out.

Robbie Wagner: [08:16] Yeah, I think some whiskeys are expensive and hard to find because they are really good, and some are because they're prestigious and whatever. And this one, it's fake to me. It's like we've faked this old brand, which is not that old with your "Very Olde" in the name like it's eight years old.

Chuck Carpenter: [08:36] Yeah, eight is not crazy.

Robbie Wagner: [08:38] Yeah, I don't know. It's a letdown, but that's fine.

Chuck Carpenter: [08:42] Yeah. Disappointing. I don't know that I'd buy another bottle of their stuff. I would try because they do bourbons, too, and they have a few different ryes bourbon. So maybe I would try one other thing, but I'm probably not going to do it via a bottle.

Robbie Wagner: [08:55] Yeah, I would try any of the things a bar or whoever might have it, but I'm not going to buy another bottle of this, probably.

Chuck Carpenter: [09:02] There you go. There goes another potential sponsor out the door. So let's talk about technology. I love G.

Robbie Wagner: [09:10] All right. Have you heard of jQuery.

Chuck Carpenter: [09:14] Only. I have. I've even read the docs. Yeah, it's a solid framework for building SAS applications, web-based applications.

Robbie Wagner: [09:25] Yeah, front end and back end. I use it for both.

Chuck Carpenter: [09:27] Yeah, it's great. I just mock the DOM, and then it works fine.

Robbie Wagner: [09:30] Yeah. For all my tests, I assert true. And it's good.

Chuck Carpenter: [09:37] There you go. We are not professionals on the internet. Do not take advice from us.

Robbie Wagner: [09:44] So what we really actually want to talk about, I guess this will be a couple of weeks late when it airs, and then actually we'll be interviewing Fred from the Astro team next the week after.

Chuck Carpenter: [09:57] I think next week.

Robbie Wagner: [09:59] Yeah. So we're going to be.

Chuck Carpenter: [10:01] Preempting that.

Robbie Wagner: [10:02] A couple of weeks behind on this one, and then even more weeks behind when you hear from Fred, who will know better than we will. We wanted to give you a quick intro into Astro 2 and some of the new things that dropped because we're big Astro fans and really believe that it is kind of the future of building web apps. So let's jump into some of the juicy new features here.

Chuck Carpenter: [10:25] Cool. Well, one of the things that stood out for me, I'm going to jump in the list a little bit, is the redesigned error overlays. So it was a really good tweet about the way those error overlays were working in Astro 1 versus Astro 2. And essentially those familiar with, say, your Next.js app, and this is, I think, comes straight from React. So not against Next.js necessarily, but you have a problem in your component tree or whatever else, and it'll just a gray background and basically just puts up a little modal with some of the stack trace, not a lot of information around the error. So then sometimes you'll be able to kind of Google that and dig into React docs and then find out, oh, you can't use a hook outside of components. And that's just a really generic, easy example. So they've gotten a lot better about error handling display information display, because I think Fred may have even said this, like, the first stop in debugging issues is obviously like, what's the error? So the more they can give you in that first stop, and it's really nicely designed, so I got to give them that, too. It's like a pleasant view, very detailed, information-wise. So that's something that I'm looking forward to.

Robbie Wagner: [11:41] Yeah, I think that's a huge problem that we could probably have a whole episode on is why errors aren't better in JavaScript because I was debugging one earlier today with Ember Table, where only if you're using Ember table in a V. Two add on, shipping it to an app using Embroider, and the file you want to import is TypeScript. It's a very complex event chain. I guess if those things happen, you get an error because it's like expecting a certain thing, like certain things to be in the component or something that aren't there when it's TypeScript for some reason. And the error basically says like error at class, class, class this error. Like the classes don't have any names, they're just class and Nullvox noticed. Like if you turn off Embroider, you get error at Ember Table, Ember Table row, Ember Table cell. Like it tells you the real things. So it's like that info is there. Why are we hiding it in this webpack world or whatever? Just spit out the real thing that happened so that we can debug it but.

Chuck Carpenter: [12:48] Pass through or something. Yeah, sometimes there are too many abstractions, and what you've described is a lot of them.

Robbie Wagner: [12:55] Yeah, but sorry to derail us there. That's just a little bit of a problem I've been having. But yeah, one of the other things that they have done is some hybrid rendering which you've probably heard of in like server-rendered or honestly, I don't know who all does it, and I know Next does it where you can say instead of fully static or fully server-rendered, do some of both kind of thing where you can be like, here's this page that's maybe static. This page is server-rendered. Even like I don't know, actually, without looking, if this means you can do it in like small sections of the page or if it's a full page.

Chuck Carpenter: [13:33] I don't know if it's per page, but yeah, we need to dig into that more. So we're going to introduce things that we didn't read all of.

Robbie Wagner: [13:39] Let's see what it says.

Chuck Carpenter: [13:40] So, at least in the sense of your application.

Robbie Wagner: [13:43] Okay, it's per page.

Chuck Carpenter: [13:45] Yeah. And that tracks in the same pattern that Next.js does it and the Next gives you three options, actually. Regardless, this this would probably tee up for a similar situation because the idea is that you're deploying you can deploy it like static, but then you still have your web server in the background to perform certain bits for you. So one being like, okay, during build time, you have all your static pages, the second obviously being server-side rendered, so that's on request. Fresh data every single time given if you have good cache settings or whatever else. And then the third one that Next does, and I bet you could do something like this with Astro, or I wonder if it's on the roadmap, is incremental static generation. Right? And so it's sort of like, especially for internationalized sites, pretty great thing where you can say, I want to render everything in build time for English, and all of the languages will get as at the request. And then, beyond that first request, it becomes static. So you sort of like save time save. You support seven languages, and you're trying to replicate your entire site. You don't have to do that all in build time. Every single time. You can kind of say 80% of our customer base is demanding English. We're going to give it to them, and then 10% want it in French, and when they come after the first time, they're good to go.

Robbie Wagner: [15:04] Yeah, I think this actually might be similar to that. We'll have to get the deep from Fred when we talk to him, but it's saying you can mix static and dynamic content, and it prerenders the pages, so it's like server-side rendering but pre-rendered. So it's like the best of both. Like you're saying, if you have one that everyone accesses most, you might pre-rerender that so that it gets shipped quicker, but then it still has dynamic data. I don't know how it works. We'll get more details from him.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:35] And then islands after the initial render and all of the things architecturally they support. Fair enough. I just want to say, Vite.

Robbie Wagner: [15:46] Vite.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:47] So Vite 4. Vite 4 is up there.

Robbie Wagner: [15:50] Yeah. So, yeah, they use Vite 4 under the hood for Astro 2. I'm unsure if that could cause potential issues because I know I forget if it was Astro or Nuxt, but one of them was using Vite 2, I believe, and when Vite 3 dropped, there were some inconsistencies, and stuff didn't work right if you were using certain plugins or whatever. So hopefully, we don't get bitten by too much of that. But everyone's super excited about Vite. It's like the number one thing that no one has any complaints about in State of JS.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:25] Yeah, at least out of the people who responded to that particular survey. And everybody's kind of happy with those things. Yeah, I know. Switching over Jazz test to Vite test 2 was a nice experience. So, so far, so good kind of thing.

Robbie Wagner: [16:40] Yeah, I think we were long overdue for what are the words? Not a build tool, I guess. A build tool like webpack or Rollup, or Parcel. Bundler, I guess.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:51] Right.

Robbie Wagner: [16:51] Whatever you call all those things. Like a thing that people actually like and want to contribute to and has momentum. I feel like everyone was like a webpack or Rollup. Like, I don't want to touch that stuff. I'll use it when I have to or whatever. But everyone seems excited about building on top of Vite, and it unlocks so many things, so I think that would be a huge step forward for everyone.

Chuck Carpenter: [17:14] Right. So what I'm not clear about because a lot of people are excited about Bun for a little while. People are excited about Deno the runtime, but then it kind of does some more things, like you have some Deno-based frameworks, like Fresh or something. And how do those all play together? Or are they competitive players?

Robbie Wagner: [17:32] I don't know. So I was listening to ShopTalk Show. I think I forget if it was ShopTalk or Syntax. I listened to them both a lot. But they had Ryan Dahl. I think it was, who made Node and Deno. And he did settle it. It is Dee-no, not Deh-no.

Chuck Carpenter: [17:51] Perfect. Not Deh-no. Okay.

Robbie Wagner: [17:52] Yeah, he was asked directly. So yeah, it was ShopTalk because I remember Chris saying that now. And they kind of had this big question that is the main thing that I wonder about is like, okay, so it's 2023. Deno exists? It's been around a few years, whatever. What does that mean for me this year? Right? Like, do I use it for something like what's going on? Everyone's pretty firmly rooted in Node right now, I would say. Is it relevant? I guess it's kind of the big question. And it's like, I forget all the good things they had about it, but I think something like 10,000 plus people are using it daily for things or something. So it's like building momentum. And things it has are like a lot of security things that are better than Node and whatnot. So I think all of these things are going to coexist for a while until if you're the guy building Bun and Deno builds everything you did, you're probably dead right? There's a lot of hype for Bun because it's in some weird language that no one had ever used, and it does everything much different than we're used to. So it was like really cool. But I don't know. I think Vite is going to be kind of the vanilla JS-style standard. And then you'll have all these other things that do it differently that people will occasionally use in edge-case apps and stuff. But I think Vite is going to be like the new webpack. Like Turbopack is not going to do it. That's some bullshit. We're not using Turbopack. We're using Vite.

Chuck Carpenter: [19:34] Nice. It's an interesting perspective because Turbopack is supposed to just be a webpack replacement, right? But then, if people have moved on from webpack.

Robbie Wagner: [19:43] Yeah, I've already replaced webpack. Thanks, see you later.

Chuck Carpenter: [19:46] Moving on to other runtime and build tools. I love how many JavaScript-supporting tools are written in other languages. Right? At a certain part, you really might ask, like, why am I working in JavaScript? Maybe I should just work directly in that other tool. Like Rust has wasm and frameworks and stuff on his own. Maybe that's the way.

Robbie Wagner: [20:10] Yeah, Primeagen would agree with you that Rust is the way.

Chuck Carpenter: [20:14] Right? Which is he going to be on or what?

Robbie Wagner: [20:17] Soon. Coming soon.

Chuck Carpenter: [20:18] Yes.

Robbie Wagner: [20:18] Except it won't because now that we've said publicly that it's coming soon, it won't happen.

Chuck Carpenter: [20:22] Yeah, it's going to all fall apart. Don't hold us to anything. This isn't very serious. Cool. But back to the original Astro 2, because he would say, just don't use JavaScript, but I don't know if he really means that all the time.

Robbie Wagner: [20:35] I think most of what he says is satire, at least a little bit, but I don't know, we'll find out.

Chuck Carpenter: [20:43] Public roadmap, which I think is a good idea with high-profile projects. It's kind of nice, and I didn't realize they have an RFC process which we obviously know within the Ember community can slow things down but makes for good discourse and hopefully helps with good decision-making within the community that you're trying to support.

Robbie Wagner: [21:05] Yeah, I think doing all that in public is a good thing. I think most projects are doing some flavor of that now. Because it's like even if you have a sufficiently large number of people on the team and you're saying, OK, there's 20 of us, and we think this is a good idea, yeah, maybe 20,000 people think it's a terrible idea because of a thing you didn't think of. So like doing that in public gives people the chance to be like, no, you shouldn't do that.

Chuck Carpenter: [21:30] Or bring about use cases you hadn't considered. Improved dev server hot model reloading, I mean, that just kind of speaks for itself. I think certain features that people are used to.

Robbie Wagner: [21:42] Yeah, I think before, there were certain cases where you had to kill the server to get a reload for certain things, I forget what it was, but I'm guessing all that is fixed with that. That's actually a big thing because when things aren't working as you expect with your live reload, it really is a hindrance to your progress of day-to-day work.

Chuck Carpenter: [22:03] Yeah, because you think you did something wrong, and you're like, wait a minute, and then you start oh, let's try this, let's try this. Oh crap, no, I just needed to.

Robbie Wagner: [22:10] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [22:10] Stop and start the server. Okay. Can be.

Robbie Wagner: [22:13] Yeah, most of those problems are around Tailwind for me and Ember. And maybe it wasn't Astro as well, where it's just like Tailwind is kind of set up to work with by itself or with maybe PostCSS. But if you're kind of integrating further into a build tool, it tends to conflict with the live reload stuff and things there.

Chuck Carpenter: [22:34] Food for thought on that. Automatic type safety for Markdown and MDX, which I think is cool, especially if you're doing a complex, more like application rather than a static site with it.

Robbie Wagner: [22:46] So I think that makes sense for MDX. I'm confused about what types you would need in Markdown. Like what this is a heading, don't use it as not a heading or something like.

Chuck Carpenter: [23:00] How you declaring those types, let alone its readability? And the types, I'm not sure because we haven't really worked in more dynamic data within our Markdown content. So really hard to say there, but I guess I can see like comprehensively when you're talking about an Astro file and having type safety throughout, it kind of makes sense if you're getting really into the weeds on it.

Robbie Wagner: [23:22] Yeah. I wonder if it's things like, say, you have a code block or something, maybe requiring give it a language or stuff to make sure your Markdown is as good as it could be or something like that. I don't know. Let's see if I can.

Chuck Carpenter: [23:37] Click.

Robbie Wagner: [23:37] Glean in the next, like, 10 seconds reading this.

Chuck Carpenter: [23:40] Yeah, because otherwise, they'll be quiet and what cannot read undefined spelled format. So you can organize.

Robbie Wagner: [23:48] Oh, I see. So you can have blogs, newsletters, products, like categories of collections, and it will do things like, oh, you had a blog post, and you didn't give it a title or something, is what I think, so okay. That's actually really useful.

Chuck Carpenter: [24:05] Yeah. Like schema around each content type. Okay, well, that makes sense. It seems quite interesting. And now we know there's the high-level synopsis. Yes. There you go. Words are hard.

Robbie Wagner: [24:18] They are hard. Especially when you haven't actually drank the whiskey.

Chuck Carpenter: [24:23] I know it usually helps this conversation be a bit smoother, so apologize for my sobriety to anyone who's subjected themselves to it.

Robbie Wagner: [24:31] I'm unsure if it helps the conversation or if it helps us feel like it's going better, you know?

Chuck Carpenter: [24:36] Yeah, well, you should know. You listen to these episodes. I don't. I just take your word for it. You're like, yeah, you're doing a great job.

Robbie Wagner: [24:43] Yeah, they sound better than they do when we do it because I think Podcast Royale takes some of the pauses and weird shit out, and they do a good bit of editing and a good job. So.

Chuck Carpenter:[24:54] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [24:55] Props to them.

Chuck Carpenter: [24:56] Shout out to them.

Robbie Wagner: [24:56] Sponsored by Podcast Royale. Not really.

Chuck Carpenter: [24:59] No. Podcast Royale is sponsored by Whiskey Web and Whatnot.

Robbie Wagner: [25:03] That's true. That's true.

Chuck Carpenter: [25:04] Small bit. All right. And then we wanted to vent about technology a little bit. We were talking about Tailwind and its integration with other tools and or libraries. One of those libraries in life that I am really tired of is Material UI. So I can understand, functionally, some of the sugar you get.

Robbie Wagner: [25:28] One second.

**Chuck Carpenter: **[25:29]** **Yeah.

**Robbie Wagner: **[25:30] Before you jump into this. Can we define because I always get confused? There's, like, material design, which is like the Google design framework.

Chuck Carpenter: [25:39] It's the theory, basically. It's not even a framework. It's not a usable tool. Material design is an ideology, a set of rules around UX.

Robbie Wagner: [25:50] But then I believe there is a Material UI, and then possibly also a MUI, which is like are the same, but different libraries. Am I making that up?

Chuck Carpenter: [26:00] I think you're right, but I think things might have shaken out to a few actual major players. So I think that MUI is essentially like a thing, and there used to be kind of two, but MUI is the React framework library. So I believe there were some variations around material design or material UI that worked in various frameworks.

Robbie Wagner: [26:25] So is that what we're talking about then? Is the React MUI.

Chuck Carpenter: [26:29] Yes.

Robbie Wagner: [26:30] Okay, just wanted to clarify before we launch into discussing.

Chuck Carpenter: [26:34] Yeah, I can't speak to, but I would think there'd be some overlap in some of those bits. I also found another library called Tailwind MUI, which somebody took MUI and then tweaked it to be all Tailwind-friendly and done for its classes and styles and stuff like that. So the two can play together. Obviously, you can create your own thing, or you can say essentially what's happened in my recent experience is deciding that MUI can kind of own the components with some enhancement, passing along class names, and then, you know, do its own functional bits. And mostly that weird everything looks like Google bit of the application, and then all of the layout flexbox, kind of stuff like that, will be Tailwind simplify that. I really don't like the idea that layout is a component and everything around, like basic, just styled divs, are components for whatever reason. And then you have 40 props for variations. How about this is visual display? Let's simplify it. Use your utility classes.

Robbie Wagner: [27:48] So I guess you maybe didn't have a say in what was used, but if you use Tailwind UI with Headless UI and Tailwind, then you would have similar things. Like probably the reason you would want to use a MUI is like, oh, maybe it has an input component that displays errors when they happen and then like a drop-down or a modal or trying to be faster. Kind of like you would have used bootstrap back in the day. But totally, if you use Tailwind UI with Headless UI, or even not, you don't need Tailwind UI. If you use Headless UI, you get those things of like a modal, dropdowns, whatever, and they're just kind of unstyled, and then you pass Tailwind classes to them to make them look however you want. So then you don't have this weird like, oh, I've got all these props and other crap. It's just like just use Tailwind classes.

Chuck Carpenter: [28:39] Yeah, that's straightforward. Totally agree. Like you said, though if you come into an application where 30% of it is built and then so you'd have this disparate experience to basically do this other stuff completely different. So you could do that, but you're not eliminating a dependency because, let's say, oh, in this section where you're an admin and not a normal logged-in user. So this could be the unique, and maybe I'm going to take that direction to give it a little bit of a refined visual style that isn't Google. I mean, it's fine, but you're not removing a dependency or, in fact, adding one. And then maybe it's weird for a user that happens to have both roles or whatever else. There's a lot of inconsistencies there.

Robbie Wagner: [29:23] Right.

Chuck Carpenter: [29:24] So the value kind of diminishes, and definitely, I'm not going to go back and refactor all the existing stuff based on preference.

Robbie Wagner: [29:32] Yeah, of course. Yeah, just annoying.

Chuck Carpenter: [29:36] Yeah, it's annoying because it's a lot more challenging to force some utility classes down through on things, and then you want to be somewhat backward compatible, so then you're just adding more and more props for more and more options or variations, which I think is messy.

Robbie Wagner: [29:51] Yeah, I feel you. I've been doing a lot of cleanup myself for various things.

Chuck Carpenter: [29:58] I'll just rewrite it in Astro.

Robbie Wagner: [30:00] Well, I joke about that with a lot of Ember people. Sometimes they come to me to complain about a thing in their app or ask for help or whatever, and I'm like, hey, yeah, you could probably do it like this, or you could get your company to hire all of us, and for the next two years we'll convert it to Astro and Solid.

Chuck Carpenter: [30:17] Perfect.

Robbie Wagner: [30:18] But yeah, there's hasn't been interest in that yet.

Chuck Carpenter: [30:23] Your pitch is so well-refined and inexpensive sounding.

Robbie Wagner: [30:27] Yeah. Give me $20 million and a team of ten, and we'll get it done.

Chuck Carpenter: [30:35] We'll get this done. You'll be happy because there'll be reduced build times with Vite and faster pages, and we'll be SolidJS experts by the end of it.

Robbie Wagner: [30:46] Yeah, I mean, Solid is really great. I still don't know much about it, but I keep evangelizing it to everyone I can because I'm like, look, if, you know, React, which 99% of people do, the syntax is the same. The mental model is just different around, like, create a signal instead of use 50,000 hooks. Just say this one thing is going to change. Here you go.

Chuck Carpenter: [31:15] Just feels right. We'll see. I don't know. I feel like my only outside view to the tech world is tech Twitter, and these things are getting a lot of talk. People are trying it, and it seems to be getting a lot of momentum. Tailwind, on the other hand, seems to have a split decision on.

Robbie Wagner: [31:37] I'm here for it, though. I loved Adam's post where he was like, all these people are just shitting on Tailwind and saying, like, oh, you should use CSS instead of Tailwind. He's like, I guess a big CSS file with thousands of selectors that style things isn't CSS anymore.

Chuck Carpenter: [31:56] Right. He essentially exactly came up with these giant CSS files with options, and then there's a processor to try and make that work easier for you. Someone else wrote your CSS. All you got to do is tell it which ones it is. A little bit of an eyesore at first. I can understand. It's like seeing HTML in a JS file years ago. Weird. So seeing 40 classes on one line, and then the next one, and then the next one, and then the next one, can be a little weird.

Robbie Wagner: [32:31] Yeah, I've been talking with someone on a team I'm working with that's like a Tailwind fan and has been learning it but is like, wow, this is such a different mental model. And it is. It takes you a while to get off that learning curve. But then once you do, I feel like the rapid prototyping is so fast of like, oh, I can throw these classes on here. I don't have to worry about naming it. I don't have to say, all right, here's these ten elements. And this one's a wrapper, and this one's a container, and this one's a whatever. It's just like they're all divs here's, all the classes. This is what they look like done. So I love that part of it.

Chuck Carpenter: [33:12] Yeah. And the nice thing is it translates from project to project. I think that's the plus side of versus creating your own. This is my system or whatever else. And assuming you can apply that system to every application you go to, or you change jobs, and then you go to a new place, and the system is a little different. Right. And maybe there's a tweak on BEM that wasn't the same way that you thought about it, or I don't know, any number of things like that. Like, the plus side is this is a pattern that once you know it, whatever project you're on, it translates, and so it makes the context change easier.

Robbie Wagner: [33:45] Yeah. I am a big fan of using tools that are very opinionated and have one way to do things. So it's like, I want to add padding to this thing. It is P -4 or whatever. It's never different than that. Unless I guess you could monkey with the config and make it really different. But hopefully, you aren't using Tailwind like that. So yeah, it's very portable across projects. I can jump into a thing, even a React project, where I'm not familiar with how React works. And I can style everything because I just have to throw the classes on there. So it's like a superpower from not needing to know where do my styles go, what are my possible things, how are we naming them, where do I import those style files, et cetera. It's just straightforward.

Chuck Carpenter: [34:34] Yeah. And again, I used to really like the idea that styles living with components, but then when you sometimes have some slightly redundant components and things like that, you can have a lot of redundant styles, and you're repeating yourself, and you don't realize that, oh, over here there's this thing, or further up the cascade, there's this thing. And then you're not in override hell. You're just doing the direct thing you need. What is the one line of this property I need on this thing? Should just be explicit. Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [35:04] My example that I always give is like, just search your code base for display flex and tell me how many you have. It's probably a thousand. Like, if your app is big, it's tons and tons. Or I guess if your app is on the bleeding edge, maybe you have a lot of display grid, whatever, like display something, display block, whatever. Those things you can save 1000 times, let's say four or five characters or whatever, getting rid of whatever the props may be. You can get rid of display colon. You can say just flex as your class or whatever. And then you make sure that all of the things that are display flex are inheriting from that one flex. It's not like I have then additional class names that take up more bytes that are wrapped just to say this thing is display flex. So it really simplifies bundles. And you should never have duplicated CSS, ever. Theoretically.

Chuck Carpenter: [36:02] Right. So win, win.

Robbie Wagner: [36:05] Yeah. But anyway, this podcast is sponsored by cleanse diets that Chuck has been doing. Right, tell me about it.

Chuck Carpenter: [36:12] Yeah, I cannot remember the lady who did it, but it doesn't matter. Somebody, I think, on Instagram or something, my wife follows. She found this six-day detox cleanse diet and is like, oh, do you want to do it with me? Sure, whatever. I like torture myself.

Robbie Wagner: [36:29] You eating nothing but hemp.

Chuck Carpenter: [36:30] No, not at all. I mean, it is like somewhat diverse foods, but I don't know, I just have quickly become uninterested in food based on this. So yesterday, for example, was oatmeal and blueberries for breakfast.

Robbie Wagner: [36:44] That sounds fine. Little bland, but fine.

Chuck Carpenter: [36:46] Yeah, that was fine. Not crazy. You can drink coffee and whatever. Water, lots of water. You got to drink a gallon of water per day. And then they supposedly tell you if. You don't finish your gallon. You're supposed to carry it over and then complete that all the next day. Which, hell no.

Robbie Wagner: [37:01] What if you end up with like three gallons in one day?

Chuck Carpenter: [37:03] Right, exactly.

Robbie Wagner: [37:04] Wouldn't you die?

Chuck Carpenter: [37:05] I think you would. So hopefully you wouldn't do that. I think it's supposed to incentivize you. I don't know.

Robbie Wagner: [37:10] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [37:10] The lunch yesterday. Now see what they lack of. Oh, it was gluten-free bread, and it was like a veggie sandwich and a hard-boiled egg. So you had like carrots and spinach and cucumber on like gluten-free bread. Not great.

Robbie Wagner: [37:26] I would rather just eat like just spinach in a bowl and an egg. That sounds good.

Chuck Carpenter: [37:32] Right? Well, that's one of the things I like about the whole plain, like, chicken diet thing with a bunch of green veggies and just plain chicken. Great, I could do that. Like, simplify it. This had a lot of weird textures and stuff. And then dinner, it was like an arugula salad with tomatoes, carrots, cucumber, and like some really plain grilled chicken. It was like a tablespoon of olive oil with like a splash of lemon as your dressing, quote, unquote, and then salt and pepper. It's fine. But I wasn't very hungry. And I hate arugula. I don't hate it, but I really dislike it, especially alone. You can throw it into a mixed salad for me, and I can deal with that. But if it's just like a pile of arugula, not good. So this morning, it was like an avocado toast on the same gluten-free bread and smashed avocado with some lemon pepper. Fine. Not exciting.

Robbie Wagner: [38:23] No egg.

Chuck Carpenter: [38:24] No egg this morning. And then I got some raspberries and cucumbers for snack, and I had the other half of that salad for lunch, but it would have been, like, some green smoothie. Otherwise, I have no idea what I'm in for for dinner.

Robbie Wagner: [38:38] That's exciting.

Chuck Carpenter: [38:39] So that is that so a lot of veggies, plain protein, and gluten-free bread.

Robbie Wagner: [38:47] Yeah. I have not started any type of dieting yet. After this, in fact, I'm going to go buy some sub rolls so that we can make cheesesteaks for dinner. So much different than what you're eating.

Chuck Carpenter: [39:00] This is not a diet. There's nothing like eating, like, a giant, cheesy, fatty, delicious cheesesteak and then, like, going to bed. Yeah. So I did a six-month diet bet that I signed up for. So it's like you have to lose 10% of your body weight within six months, basically. Doable.

Robbie Wagner: [39:20] And I put down upfront $200. So if I lose, I lose that. It incentivizes you to not lose your money. Theoretically. But if you really want that cake, maybe it doesn't. But the idea is all the people that lose. The pot gets bigger. So you could win thousands of dollars at the end if everyone loses. So, like, could be cool. I did some smaller ones back in the day. Like, I bet, like, $20 and do, like, a one month lose, like, 3% of your body weight or something. And those are fairly easy because you can kind of game the system of, like, all right, when I weigh in, I'm going to make sure I've eaten really badly the past couple of days, and then when I'm at the end.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:04] I'll just flush some water and stuff.

Robbie Wagner: [40:06] Make sure I've drank in tons of water. It's not hard to do 3%, but I think 10% over six months is much more. Like, I could actually lose real weight.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:17] Which, in your case, it's like 100 pounds. Yeah. Get off the couch. It'll be great. Okay. Well, yeah. Is that with friends, or is that, like, some official app or something?

Robbie Wagner: [40:31] It's an app. It's an app called Diet Bet. Okay, so it's just with random people?

Chuck Carpenter: [40:35] Yeah, I've kind of heard of this concept before. How do you not lie?

Robbie Wagner: [40:41] So you have to weigh in, and you take pictures, like, two pictures. One where you're standing on the scale with you've written today's word on a piece of paper.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:49] Okay.

Robbie Wagner: [40:50] So you don't just have a picture of you on a scale, and then you have a picture at the same time of you, like, full body standing on the scale. So it's like confirming you don't have, like, a 50-pound weight on your head or something stupid. And then people verify that. They make sure your pictures haven't been doctored, and then they say, like, cool, your weight is what you said. So I'm sure there are people that are gaming the system a little that know how to do some crazy Photoshop stuff that isn't detectable or something, but there's not a ton of money in it. I don't know why you would care about going to those lengths. It's just meant to make you want to stick to your diet.

Chuck Carpenter: [41:31] Yeah. Interesting. Well, it'll be interesting to see what you choose as your strategy for weight loss over that timeframe.

Robbie Wagner: [41:40] Yeah. I think to start. I'm just going to be smarter. I always wake up and eat waffles or something super unhealthy and, like, have a coffee with a couple of scoops of sugar and creamer and like, so instead, I'll just have, like, a black coffee and wait. Like, I'm pretty good if I know I'm committing to that about waiting until lunch or later to eat. So I'll just drink a cup of coffee or two and start with that and then have smarter choices at meals for lunch and dinner. Not any kind of necessarily, like portion control or whatever, just not cheesesteaks. Like, have better stuff.

Chuck Carpenter: [42:16] I don't know. You'd probably have a cheesesteak if you had, like, a quarter of a cheesesteak versus a whole cheesesteak, then you could have that.

Robbie Wagner: [42:23] Yeah, that's true. I don't know. So there's no real plan. I'm going to take the first month, just kind of casual, and then the second month, if I haven't had any results, I'll probably do more rigid stuff, but definitely more workouts. Like, I'm going to work out theoretically five times a week, but we'll see if I can stick to that.

Chuck Carpenter: [42:43] Say 30 minutes of activity per day, even if that's just a walk, is beneficial.

Robbie Wagner: [42:49] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [42:49] To weight loss.

Robbie Wagner: [42:50] Yep.

Chuck Carpenter: [42:50] Yeah, because you don't want to get jacked. Then you'll put on muscle and put on weight.

Robbie Wagner: [42:57] I'm going to lift weights. If I happen to somehow put on so much muscle that I, like, lose my Diet Bet, I will be happy to give away the $200. I don't think that's going to happen, though.

Chuck Carpenter: [43:10] Right. It's a win-win.

Robbie Wagner: [43:11] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [43:11] I'm going to come out for a couple of weeks and just spike all your coffee with flavorless, protein, and creatine.

Robbie Wagner: [43:20] Oh, man, I'm scared of creatine.

Chuck Carpenter: [43:22] Yeah?

Robbie Wagner: [43:23] I always look at it because, theoretically, it just makes your muscles bigger, but it has a lot of potential side effects and stuff, I think.

Chuck Carpenter: [43:33] I saw a thing about this where there was a recent study on it. So the problem is there's a number of variations, and then they'll, like, add. There's additives. So at its heart, like, I think creatine monohydrate is supposed to help you with recovery and some of that being some water flush in your muscles, but also some other things, like with memory retention and things like that. So it's supposed to have some other positive effects. It's when I think you start getting the ones that are like $50 because they're trying to add 42 other things in there. That's probably not great. I'll have to find this. So I recently subscribed to Arnold Schwarzenegger's daily newsletter, and it's like a five-minute health tips thing. And one of them mentions creatine, like, what's the deal with creatine? And then has a link to a couple of studies. So it seems pretty legit.

Robbie Wagner: [44:25] Yeah, no, I know it works, but I've seen, like, I go down the rabbit hole of looking at the bad reviews or then Googling about it, and I don't remember, but it's like, oh, maybe if you aren't drinking enough water, it destroys your kidneys or something. There's some kind of weird side effects where probably, if you know all of that and do it right, it's fine. But I got scared and never did it.

Chuck Carpenter: [44:50] Way back in the day, when I lifted a lot of weights and was concerned with muscle size and blah, blah, blah. I did it then, and it seemed pretty effective in terms of recovery, I don't know. They used to say, let you get in a couple more reps. I don't know if that was ever true, but I do believe it helped with recovery. Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [45:10] Oh, I took a lot of questionable supplements when I was younger.

Chuck Carpenter: [45:13] Those are called steroids Robbie.

Robbie Wagner: [45:15] No, I took this one. I may have told you about it, where it was a pre-workout thing, or, like, I guess you took it. It wasn't like immediately before the workout. Not like the drinks with all the crap in them. It was like pills. And you would take them, I think, daily, and they would just make you have tons of energy. And during your workouts, you just felt like your heart was pumping so much, and you could do anything. And then a couple of weeks into me taking it, I get an email from Amazon because I bought it from them, and they were like, hey, we randomly tested these, and they are just like a prescription heart medicine. And I was like, oh, shit. This is probably not good to be having, but it makes me feel so good.

Chuck Carpenter: [46:01] When I was taking supplements like that, Amazon was not really a thing for anything other than books for the most part. So you were going to local vitamin shops or whatever bodybuilding place. I don't know. Ridiculous things. So I took ephedra for sure.

Robbie Wagner: [46:17] A lot of people did until they knew what it was.

Chuck Carpenter: [46:20] I don't know. It was pretty effective. Who knows what the long-term effects were? I remember meeting someone who had a friend who was mid to late 20s, took way more than suggested, and had a heart attack at like 27.

Robbie Wagner: [46:35] Oh, shit.

Chuck Carpenter: [46:35] Yeah. So I was like, yeah, see, this is why things in moderation to a degree, right? Oh, this is giving me energy. This is helping me burn fat. What if I take 14 of them a day, you overheat and die? I don't know. What if you just go sit in the desert and don't drink water? I mean, you probably lose weight then too.

Robbie Wagner: [46:55] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [46:56] I think people are ridiculous with that. That's the thing. Well, like you said, if you drink three gallons of water in a day, they say water is good. Water is good. Water is good. Unless you flood your system out, anything can be harmful.

Robbie Wagner: [47:10] Yeah, that was a thing. I don't remember the details, but it was like a radio competition thing. Like, you went to, I don't know, your local radio station and would have a booth or whatever, and they would have games and competitions or whatever. And one of the things was, like, if you can drink this whole gallon of water, you get something or something, and someone did it and then proceeded to die afterwards because you're not supposed to drink a gallon of water in like ten minutes or whatever.

Chuck Carpenter: [47:38] Right. Well.

Robbie Wagner: [47:42] Moderation is key.

Chuck Carpenter: [47:43] Some people learn the hard way.

Robbie Wagner: [47:45] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [47:48] Yeah. Anyway, tell me about your Premier League Fan Fest.

Chuck Carpenter: [47:52] Oh, yes. As mentioned briefly earlier, I made a very quick trip to Orlando in order to participate in an NBC Sports Premier League Fan Fest, which is the thing they do like a couple of times a year with the NBC Sports, their pundits. So they'll do, like, a show throughout the beginning in between half times of matches to talk about the matches going on and whatever else. So they do it live, which is kind of fun. And then you're surrounded by other obsessed individuals, which is also kind of fun. And then they'll have some activities and sponsors there. So it's interesting. It's the first one I've been to. They seem to do a lot of them on the East Coast. I think the last one was in Philly or something. And I have friends and family in Florida, so it seemed like a win-win that I could combine those two. So, feedback for any interested in future endeavors of this nature? I would say worth doing not sure I would do both days because, basically, they're very similar. And then, one day, my team was playing, and one day my team was not. So, like, all the swag for the day that your team isn't playing doesn't really apply to you. And then you've kind of covered some of the similar activities, but there was some cool stuff there where if you had like a jersey with no player on it, you could get your team star name and number on the back for free. That's kind of a nice thing. They had the actual Premier League trophy there, and you could go up and kind of touch it and get pictures with it. That was fun. The Barclays, which is like a major sponsor of the Premier League, had this huge claw game set up with these really big balls and stuff to do it, and it was just as much of a farce as the real one. But when there was one trip to London in there, there was, like, $500 savings accounts, and then there was things like souvenir ball and whatever else. I got really close to a $500 savings account. Halfway up, it fell.

Robbie Wagner: [49:42] Of course.

Chuck Carpenter: [49:43] Of course. And then I ended up with crappy sunglasses instead. So, yeah, that I got on TV briefly. You can see me yelling in a front line of fans. I just wanted my kids to be able to see me on TV. So once they got that, I was like, okay, great. I'm going to go hang out over here.

Robbie Wagner: [49:58] Were you yelling about JavaScript?

Chuck Carpenter: [49:59] Yes. I was like, Tailwind. You're welcome, Adam. I'm sure he continues to listen to the show.

Robbie Wagner: [50:06] Oh, yeah, Adam loves us.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:07] Yeah. So, yeah, I was screaming, Tailwind. He hasn't sent me a shirt. I could have been wearing a shirt and really helped, but.

Robbie Wagner: [50:14] I don't think he has any. You go to Cotton Bureau and order them. I don't think he ships them out.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:19] I think that's a smart way to go about it. Like, who wants to do print runs and inventory and everything else? I just recently got out of the shipping game myself. Like, I took if you'd ever seen some of the video from this.

Robbie Wagner: [50:31] I don't see boxes behind you right now.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:33] I took everything I had left, boxes of whiskey from our barrel last year, and took them home, gave them to strangers, gave them the strangers. I threw them out of the car into the highways. I'm sick of this. No, I took them home and put them in my garage because it's temperate for a while there, and I'll figure that out in the future. But I was just like, we've gone through some rounds of shipping out and everything else, so I don't need the accessibility. I could bring in a couple of bottles if needed to Pack & Ship. I was like. I got to get out of this game. I don't want to be a FedEx guy. Yeah, so those are all gone.

Robbie Wagner: [51:08] I hate shipping stuff.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:09] Yeah. I made it as easy as I can on myself, like, buying those specific boxes and everything else, but still in order supplies from UPS.

Robbie Wagner: [51:19] Great.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:19] It's nice, but still just kind of gets old.

Robbie Wagner: [51:22] Yeah. Things are supposed to come to me. I don't give things out. They come to me.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:26] Right. Well, shouldn't have bought a barrel, I guess. I'm sure you still have, like, 18 boxes.

Robbie Wagner: [51:34] Oh, my God. I have, like, 70 bottles or so.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:37] Yeah, so oops, I'm down to, like, seven or eight boxes, and I guess that's six per. So somewhere around 50 or so bottles. I don't know.

Robbie Wagner: [51:46] Yeah, so if anyone wants some, hit us up. We're on Twitter and everywhere. Just be like, hey, we want some whiskey. I didn't care enough to buy your NFT, but we'll still work on getting you some.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:58] Yeah, why not? I'm down to spread the love and share, so.

Robbie Wagner: [52:02] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [52:03] Why not?

Robbie Wagner:[52:03] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [52:04] I like where your head is at there. So, anyway, Premier League Fan Fest is fun if you're very much into those things. There are some casual soccer fans there, but in general, there are a lot of supporters, groups, and stuff, and people really into it. My voice is still slightly hoarse from the yelling and screaming because singing is a big part of the culture there. So they have lots of different songs for your team and players on the team and things like that. Or to insult other teams. Also fun. So, yeah. Would recommend especially in a toasty place like Orlando.

Robbie Wagner: [52:36] Yeah, for sure.

Chuck Carpenter: [52:37] Cool. So let's talk about your favorite team, the Broncos. You have here in the note. You're a big Broncos. I think you met an 's' on there.

Robbie Wagner: [52:46] Yeah. Football. No, my Bronco. The car or truck or vehicle or whatever you want to call it.

Chuck Carpenter: [52:54] RestoMod. So since there is a recent Bronco, you should clarify.

Robbie Wagner: [52:58] True. Yes. Not a new Bronco. I guess technically, it's 1970, but nothing from 1970 is on it. It's like the way you get around that is the Vin number clarifies the age. So if you have a frame with the Vin number stamped on it, it is a 1970, even if you put new everything else on it.

Chuck Carpenter: [53:21] So are all the panels, like, fiberglass and stuff, or do you have the original lease panels and stuff?

Robbie Wagner: [53:26] I'm unsure.

Chuck Carpenter: [53:27] Okay.

Robbie Wagner: [53:28] I believe they're still like metal, but you can buy a new stuff that goes on the frame. The whole metal body, I guess, from Ford. Like, Ford still makes them, I think. So you can buy that and then drop it on your frame. So the frame is original, and literally everything else, from all of the suspension to the wheels to the body to all of the glass. And none of it is original. The rest is, like, brand new.

Chuck Carpenter: [54:00] It's kind of nice, though.

Robbie Wagner: [54:01] So everything is 2023 except for the frame.

Chuck Carpenter: [54:04] Yeah. But you get the look that you like in a retro car, and you get creature comforts. Because let's be honest, you don't want the shocks from 1970, right?

Robbie Wagner: [54:14] No.

Chuck Carpenter: [54:15] And many other parts.

Robbie Wagner: [54:17] And it has air conditioning.

Chuck Carpenter: [54:18] Yes.

Robbie Wagner: [54:19] Which is going to be nice.

Chuck Carpenter: [54:20] Yeah. That's key.

Robbie Wagner: [54:21] Yeah. My Scout did not have that. And if you drove it for more than 1 minute, it was like 400 degrees inside.

Chuck Carpenter: [54:28] Interesting. Useful in the winter.

Robbie Wagner: [54:31] Yeah, in the winter, it was fine, but in the summer, you were like, oh, my God, I don't want to be in here anymore.

Chuck Carpenter: [54:37] I had a couple of air-conditioned, free vehicles here in Arizona. The first one was a 73 Super Beetle, and so it wasn't convertible. And essentially, even if you were, like, windows down and let's tilt these little, like the, I forget what they call, like, the small windows in front of the main roll down window. It could kind of tilt forward.

Robbie Wagner: [54:58] Yeah. Little like triangle ones.

Chuck Carpenter: [55:00] Yeah. And they could tilt forward in a way that would direct wind at you and kind of give you some nice airflow. Then now you and you're driving that around. Because I took it to California a couple of times, some other places. California with the ocean breeze. It was like, yeah, this is great. I get why people like these here. Summer in Phoenix, Arizona, it was like a blow dryer on your face, and you're like, how do I get free? It's terrible when I'm stopped. It's terrible when I'm driving. I can't go anywhere in the day.

Robbie Wagner: [55:27] Yeah. Feel trapped. Yeah. Yeah, very trapped. And then I had a convertible without air conditioning for a bit, too. And you really would just be like, this is less like, I'm going to suffocate, but still not great. I think I'm just going to not drive in the daytime through all summer. As much as I can get those errands done at 6 am or 6 pm, and that's it. No in-between.

Robbie Wagner: [55:49] Yeah. So hopefully, everything will be nice and cozy in the Bronco. I think they've done a lot of insulation and stuff to make it to where it shouldn't be. Super hot, but we'll see. And I should have it in the next couple of weeks. By the time this airs, I may have it.

Chuck Carpenter: [56:06] So I was going to say I think we'll put a pin in that and plan to do a follow-up review because, in theory, it sounds great and much improved over your last adventure down this RestoMod path, which was less mod, more resto. Now you're going to be like. I need nice stuff.

Robbie Wagner: [56:25] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [56:25] But I want it to look old and cool.

Robbie Wagner: [56:27] Yeah, that's it. When I did the call with the guy initially specing it out, we were talking about how high the suspension was and stuff, and I was like, look, I want it to look like it can go off-road, but I'm never going to take it off road. So do what you want with that information.

Chuck Carpenter: [56:42] Yeah. Make it more comfortable than capable, really.

Robbie Wagner: [56:45] Right.

Chuck Carpenter: [56:46] Let's say skew towards comfort over capability.

Robbie Wagner: [56:48] Yeah. I wouldn't want to scratch it on a tree. Come on.

Chuck Carpenter: [56:52] Don't make it legit, though.

Robbie Wagner: [56:54] Well, yeah, I don't care about it being legit.

Chuck Carpenter: [56:56] No. Just look good.

Robbie Wagner: [56:58] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [56:59] Good. Feel good. All right, I get that.

Robbie Wagner: [57:01] All right. Well, we are at time here, so if you liked this, please subscribe. You just press that little follow button or whatever it is on your platform, be it Spotify, Apple, Amazon Music, I don't know. We're on everything. Pocket Casts. You can find it everywhere. So press that button. Also, press the review buttons. If your platform supports it, we would really appreciate ratings. You don't have to bother with the review part. Just do like five stars. You can leave no text in it if.

Chuck Carpenter: [57:29] Five stars, of course.

Robbie Wagner: [57:30] Yeah, you don't have to worry about typing things, just quick ratings, and yeah, we really appreciate you helping us with that so that we can talk to more people about Whiskey Web and Whatnot. And we will catch you next time to talk about Astro 2 more.

Chuck Carpenter: [57:51] Thanks for listening to Whiskey Web and Whatnot. This podcast is brought to you by Ship Shape and produced by Podcast Royale. If you like this episode, consider sharing it with a friend or two and leave us a rating, maybe a review, as long as it's good.

Robbie Wagner: [58:06] You can subscribe to future episodes on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more info about Ship Shape and this show, check out our website at shipshape.io.