Jan. 19, 2023

SQL vs NoSQL, Web Technologies, and Holiday Recap


If you’re like Robbie and you haven’t dug into SQL since college, learning the basics of SQL vs NoSQL is a great place to start. Working with data isn’t a part of every developer’s day-to-day, but it can’t hurt to understand the differences.

NoSQL is gaining popularity among engineers because of the ease and flexibility of updating fields with new data. Some engineers prefer taking unstructured data and using a programming language they already know, like Python, to write their queries. SQL is far more structured and requires strict rules for writing queries. As with most things in tech, whether SQL is better than NoSQL depends on your business and use cases.

In this episode, Robbie and Chuck talk about the pros and cons of SQL vs NoSQL, why they like SQL databases like Prisma and Postgres, and their Christmas and New Year festivities.

 

Key Takeaways

  • [00:56] - Chuck and Robbie wrap up the Advent of Whiskey.
  • [01:35] - A whiskey Review: Yellowstone Select Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey.
  • [04:47] - SQL versus NoSQL.
  • [ 13:24] - Using Prisma and MySQL.
  • [28:56] - Chuck and Robbie discuss the holidays and family life.

 

Quotes

[16:40] - “I don't have to touch databases much, but when I do, I like that they are Postgres.” ~ Robbie Wagner

[17:13] - “I never really remember having fun with a project that was in SQL Server or MySQL.” ~ Robbie Wagner

[22:26] - “This project is using Prisma, and Prisma has nice sugar around accessing entities.” ~ Chuck Carpenter

 

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Transcript

Robbie Wagner: [00:09] What's going on, everybody? Welcome to Whiskey Web and Whatnot, your favorite podcast about whiskey, web, and whatnot. With your hosts? Robert William Wagner and Charles William Carpenter III. Today we are going to be talking about I'm not sure what.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [00:28] Some things.
 
Robbie Wagner: [00:29] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [00:29] We have some notes, but it's just us. Sorry, if you were looking for a guest, it's just going to be us this time.
 
Robbie Wagner: [00:36] Yeah. And we're a little bit weird on the publishing here, so I guess there's two more coming out before this. But like so far, as of today, when we're recording, nothing but Advent of Whiskey has been out. So there will be a couple more guests. Then you'll hear this. So hopefully, you get a little bit of stuff that's more interesting than just us.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [00:56] Although if you listen to the Advent of Whiskey, I hope you learned that those things aren't a good idea, at least if you're trying to cram them into, like, five days or so. Yes, it's a lot of whiskeys to try in a short period of time, and I don't know if that influenced our opinions on what was good or not. I know at the end of it, I needed a little bit of a break. Believe it or not, as often as I drink, I still needed a little break.
 
Robbie Wagner: [01:20] Yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, it sounds really fun, but it's everything in moderation because being forced to drink 24 whiskeys is not as fun as choosing to drink 24 whiskeys.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [01:34] There you go. All right, so speaking of whiskey, today we are going to try the Yellowstone Select Kentucky Straight Bourbon whiskey. So this is distilled and bottled by the Limestone Branch Distillery, which is the parent distillery for the Yellowstone brand. Now, it was an old brand, actually, that used to was big at the turn of the century, up until I want to say, maybe the 50s or 60s, I'm not sure. Like, when whiskey started to kind of go downhill. I know it's one that went away. This one is 93 proof. It is a blend of four and seven-year-old bourbons. Their mash bill is 75% corn, so pretty high corn, but then 13% rye and 12% malted barley. All right, I got to go through my there we go. That's why we got nice mice. Yeah.
 
Robbie Wagner: [02:29] All right. What do we got?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [02:32] All right, so on the nose.
 
Robbie Wagner: [02:34] It smells appley to me.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [02:36] Yeah. Like a sour apple, though. Yeah, I get a little of that.
 
Robbie Wagner: [02:40] It's like a granny's uncooked Granny Smith apple pie.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [02:46] I'm getting it. Definitely a little sweet initially, but with a little spice along the way. It's almost like, okay, I'm going to go back down the apple pie thing because you're getting a little bit of cinnamon along with the sweetness. Not bad. What else going on there? Little leathery on the finish. I feel like something not just tart but something kind of sweet.
 
Robbie Wagner: [03:12] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [03:12] I won't say maple.
 
Robbie Wagner: [03:14] I think I get like the teeny tiniest amount of tobacco or something. Like it kind of tastes like a manly candle.
 
Robbie Wagner: [03:25] Smells like grandpa's cigar.
 
Robbie Wagner: [03:27] Like bergamot or.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [03:28] Oh, yeah, grandpa cigar during Christmas.
 
Robbie Wagner: [03:32] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [03:33] Caramel apple. Caramel apple. Little cinnamon. That's what I'm getting a lot in the flavors. Not bad. Not bad.
 
Robbie Wagner: [03:41] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [03:42] Okay, well, how do you feel about it on the complex scientific Ship Shape rating system?
 
Robbie Wagner: [03:47] I don't know, maybe it's just because we had so many shitty ones when we were doing the 24, but this is really good to me, especially for the price point. I want to say it was like 30 or something, like pretty cheap. And for that, I would give it a seven, I think.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [04:04] Yeah.
 
Robbie Wagner: [04:04] For that price point, I think this is about the best you could get.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [04:07] Wow. There you go. So you'd take this over a Buffalo Trace?
 
Robbie Wagner: [04:11] I'm actually not sure that I've had the plain Buffalo Trace. We'll have to do that one.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [04:15] Yeah, we should do it. That said, that's like kind of a regular. I think this is more complex than that. Perhaps it's the mix of the fours and the sevens where they were able to make it less expensive but get enough because seven to nine year is usually like my jam. Yeah, I'm going to go with you. I'm going to agree. It's a seven. I was kind of thinking six, right, at first because I was, like, definitely better than average. Pretty good. You brought about one of my criteria, the price point. So that brings it down or brings it up, actually, to seven. Darn good.
 
Robbie Wagner: [04:46] Yeah. So our tech topic for today, which I don't know how much detail you know about these, I haven't done a lot with data myself, or the recently I did, like, I guess I should say what it is before I just ramble on. Yes, it is. SQL versus NoSQL. But I had a SQL class in college. It was very hard. I remember we spent 24 hours awake in one room trying to do our final project where we had. I don't even know how many tables, maybe like 20 tables, was trying to join everything and do complex queries and do a ton of stuff. And it's hard, man. Especially I think the things we were doing. It got so complex because we were students who had no idea what we were doing that the queries would take like ten minutes or more. So it's like you get to the end, and you're like, that's wrong, and then you have to rewrite it. So it was a very tedious process.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [05:49] Right. And first of all, do you know what SQL stands for?
 
Robbie Wagner: [05:54] I think it is structured query language.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [05:57] Bing bing bing. Yeah, at least that's how I know it too. So I didn't look it up to actually test you on this.
 
Robbie Wagner: [06:03] Yeah, I've never looked it up.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [06:05] Yeah, I don't know, I don't know where I learned that, but yeah, it's pretty straightforward anyway. Yeah. Like the reasons for one versus another, and I think it just tends to be it's not often I've been in a circumstance where I would make an architectural decision on which to use for the database. Right. It's just been more of, well, these are the databases we have, and so here are your options for accessing that and figure that part out. To me, it's always been more related to the stack itself oftentimes or the underlying technologies around it. Like MySQL, okay, are we in a .NET. Are we using .NET, and so you're using a lot of Microsoft-centered products, and so that kind of comes along for the ride there. Oh, we're doing a lot of open source that tends to be like Postgres or some flavor similar too. I opted to hate myself once when I made the Swatch API because I was utilizing serverless things and serverless and DynamoDB are like it's an easy kind of choice to go together, but then like learning that they suggest that you don't separate tables for relations. You, in fact, instead, just build single table databases and just kind of continue to expand on those with the keys in terms of access.
 
Robbie Wagner: [07:31] Right.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [07:32] So the document database versus the other more traditional structures, accessibility within a cloud environment was like one of the reasons there, too, because it kind of can infinitely scale, and as long as your access patterns are planned out, then it kind of doesn't matter. Right. You're not going to show me go through a million records and then filter.
 
Robbie Wagner: [07:52] Yeah. I think a way I never really thought about it is my brother-in-law is doing, like, a SQL course right now, and he was talking about it and asking about what stuff I had used and whatnot, and he was kind of like, well, he prefers NoSQL because it's like he would rather have his data be unstructured and then do the programming bit in something that you really program in, like Python or a scripting language. Versus if you're using SQL, you're kind of doing the coding in your queries because it's very structured and very like, oh, I've got these 20 tables. I want to grab these fields from these. I want to rename them. I want to only do where this criteria is this or whatever, as all part of your query. Versus, you could say if you had NoSQL, you could be like, give me all this data, and then I'm going to start filtering through and manipulating it with Python or whatever. So it's kind of where do you want to do the work? I think is a big differentiating factor that I had never really considered when I was thinking about them.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [08:58] Right, but then from a performance perspective, what's the better choice? I guess, as with everything, it depends, right? Always.
 
Robbie Wagner: [09:06] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [09:07] It depends.
 
Robbie Wagner: [09:08] Yeah. So I looked it up because they'd actually differed a little bit from what I was thinking. And it always kind of been traditionally taught that basically if you got all of your SQL schema really nice and tight and you didn't mess up that and make it messy, that was going to be more performant in most cases because it's more like a hash map almost. You're like, give me these things, and it's like, Here you go.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [09:33] Sure. And I think that that probably amounts to kind of like I was mentioning with a document database where there's a lot more planning in terms of data access and the kinds of data responses you need. And then you can have the right schema to support that and come up with the queries that provide the data the applications need and all that kind of stuff. But it doesn't feel very flexible in the long term. Right, right, yeah. And that's basically the same thing I had in DynamoDB is if you find a use case you hadn't planned for, or you're adding new features that require different access patterns or different data sets, then what? Right?
 
Robbie Wagner: [10:18] Yeah. That is definitely one of the big benefits to NoSQL is that it's very easy to add fields because I know I would hit that using traditional SQL of, like, oh, I defined my schema. It's these 15 things, whatever. And then a couple of weeks later, I'm like, but there's a 16th thing. And then you add it, and then everything you would put in for those two weeks isn't going to have data for that because that field didn't exist before. Unless you go through and manually add them all in, which you could do. But I remember ending up with lots of empty data because I didn't do that step. So it would be like, oh, I added this new field, and everything that existed before just won't have it.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [10:59] Right, yeah. You need to provide a default value in your migration or whatever. Yeah, right.
 
Robbie Wagner: [11:04] But then, depending on that, happens for years and years, and you end up with like 200 fields in this table, and then you do a Jquery for a thing, and then you get some weird data because half of them weren't defined when you started or whatever. So I think that is one of the biggest selling points of NoSQL. But I also found out that it actually gives you easier scaling than SQL does, which I thought was wrong, but it's like, oh, it's like having no structure makes it harder to scale, which I guess is maybe a different problem than exactly what I'm saying here. But let me just read what it says. Like NoSQL is horizontally scalable. So that means you add more servers to be able to do things quicker and handle more people on your site or whatever. Whereas SQL, you have just like the one server, and it's vertically scalable. So you add CPU or like more Ram or things to make that server more performant. But that gets harder and harder to scale because there's only so much CPU and Ram you can add, but you can do infinite servers with NoSQL. So that probably ties back to the serverless stuff you were saying where that makes it better with, well, not better, but you're more likely to use it with serverless stuff because it's all in that same sort of thing where it's like, oh, you just spin up as many servers as you need, you run the thing, and you spin them all down. So like that fits that paradigm better, I think.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [12:33] What do you mean by better for multi-row transactions for SQL?
 
Robbie Wagner: [12:37] I don't know, that is what it said online. But my guess is what that means is like you want to change 500 rows and like you want to add an A to their ID field or something. Maybe that like doing things like that is better. I'm not sure why. I don't have the why for you. We can theorize as to why. Like, I would think perhaps once you have all the references to those rows, it's easier to change the thing or something than it, like maybe you have to iterate through them in NoSQL or something like that. I'm really not sure.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [13:15] I'm underwhelmed with that response.
 
Robbie Wagner: [13:17] Yeah, I was hoping that writing some of these things down, you would just kind of know some of it too because you've done more with this stuff than I have.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [13:24] Right? Today started working on a project working with an existing project that uses Prisma but with MySQL versus Postgres. So Prisma enforces a schema kind of regardless. But obviously, you have tools along the way with which you can add and change and migrate and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, the way that if you have multiple tables, though, and then your references with multiple tables isn't just so clear as it is with Postgres. I have a user and they have reservations. You go to your reservations table, and you look for the user ID relation. Right? That's kind of easy. And it's not really straightforward like that. You can fudge that stuff, but it's not essentially how they want you to deal with relations as much.
 
Robbie Wagner: [14:20] In NoSQL, you mean. Or in MySQL.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [14:23] MySQL.
 
Robbie Wagner: [14:24] So MySQL doesn't have a foreign key on your reservation as a foreign key to the user ID or whatever.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [14:32] So it has foreign keys and primary keys and some of that stuff, but like there's you can only have single ones is the difference that I can think of. So essentially, you can define your foreign keys and primary keys, but you can't say you have a user that has reservations and has preferences and has it gets weird when you have multiple relations.
 
Robbie Wagner: [14:58] Right. So you would have to make separate tables that kind of join the tables in MySQL whereas exactly, Postgres, you can just say like, oh, it just is related to these ten things, and here's their IDs or whatever.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [15:12] Right. Like you can have a reservation that has your relation to a user and your relation to maybe a location and your relation to that kind of stuff. So it's easier to have multiple relations. And then in like MySQL or Dynamo was like that a lot too, where you didn't have these access patterns across entities in the same way if they had multiple relations. Really?
 
Robbie Wagner: [15:37] Yeah, and Postgres, I think a few projects that I've been on, the reason we used it was because of PostGIS or whatever. If you want location data, it's kind of the default because it has the best GIS support, I guess, out of like any SQL solution. So that's a couple of wins for Postgres over MySQL.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [15:59] Yeah, I think so. Yeah. It just seems like most of the time, you can just throw everything at Postgres, and it's fine. You can sort it out. You've got a lot of options. So unless there's some scalable argument or performance argument that I am unaware of, which is highly possible, then just in general, as a user for the DX, it seems pretty easy just to go with Postgres and go down that path.
 
Robbie Wagner: [16:23] Yeah, I mean, Supabase uses it, so it's got to be good, right?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [16:27] Yeah, it's got to be great. Someone else, too, recently. But anyway, I don't know. Postico is a cool GUI for messing with it. Yeah, all the fun stuff.
 
Robbie Wagner: [16:38] Yeah. I mean, I don't have to touch databases much, but when I do, I like that they are Postgres usually.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [16:45] Yeah. And so maybe that's just a side effect of our experiences. There's other areas and communities where they're like, no, I know how to get things done and be productive and powerful with other things. So certainly, anyone can hit us up on Twitter and straighten out our assumptions. Totally.
 
Robbie Wagner: [17:05] At whiskey FM.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [17:08] FM not on your AM dial.
 
Robbie Wagner: [17:13] Yeah, I think I never really remember having fun with a project that was in SQL Server or MySQL, like Postgres. It was fun sometimes, not always, but I never remember having fun with MySQL.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [17:30] And maybe in the end, it'll work out all just fine. Like I said, this project is using Prisma, and Prisma has nice sugar around accessing entities, and it just lets you, as you would expect in a relational database, like, say, reservations, find all, pass it a parameter where user dot user ID equals this or whatever, something like that. You can pass it in pretty nicely in JavaScript. And Prisma is cool like that where you say, is this Postgres? Is this MySQL? Is it whatever else? It's still the same syntax from your access perspective there, and then they just make it work.
 
Robbie Wagner: [18:13] Got you.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [18:14] So, so far, not crazy.
 
Robbie Wagner: [18:15] Yeah, I haven't used that.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [18:17] I just had to, like, use tools to manually insert new users and make some adjustments there, and I was like, I guess it's a little like Postico but like not exactly, and some of the columns, like I said, with the foreign and primary keys a little different.
 
Robbie Wagner: [18:32] Yeah, I mean, I like that it gives you a default, is not the right word, but like a syntax that works across an agnostic syntax, I guess, that works across different layers is nice, and you just have to learn Prisma, and it's like, oh, what am I using? And here you go.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [18:48] Booyah. So you've not used Prisma before?
 
Robbie Wagner: [18:50] No, they haven't sponsored the podcast yet.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [18:53] So, are they into whiskey? Maybe we should invite them on. I don't know, I've used it.
 
Robbie Wagner: [18:58] We should.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [18:58] Crossed a few projects. Actually, I guess this will be the fourth one, maybe or something that's used it. Yeah, and it's just an ORM, and it just gives you nice sugar for, like saying, hey Prisma, what are your entities? Right, what are your models or entities? And users dot find one or find specifically, and I'll give you the first one and pass in some stuff. Magic happens.
 
Robbie Wagner: [19:21] So it's like a more verbose Ember Data.
 
Chuck Carpenter:[19:27] Yeah, well, I don't know if it's more verbose because Ember Data and I know Runspired is probably going to be annoyed that I say this offhand, so Ember Data has a lot more going on, but I know what he will say, or I assume what he will say is well, that's your choice, right. You don't have to take it all, and it's a separate bit of packages, so offers some similar things, and so for you, I think that syntax would be appealing. It doesn't serialize and deserialize and all that kind of fun stuff like that.
 
Robbie Wagner: [20:01] Okay, right, so it just gives you exactly what the data is.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [20:07] It's a pass-through of whatever your response is, and it's not going to like it does do though, like a schema check in the sense of like if you get an integer and it's what's supposed to be a string, it'll throw up, things like that.
 
Robbie Wagner:[20:21] Okay.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [20:22] Yeah, like wrong data types, it does do a check on that, so that's cool. But in general, it's just like access patterns that are same.
 
Robbie Wagner: [20:31] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [20:31] Across all these databases. And Ember Data, though, can you use Ember Data directly on a database connection, or it's always like?
 
Robbie Wagner: [20:41] No.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [20:41] A fetch, right? Yeah, so that's the other difference, I guess. But, like syntactically, I think you would find some things familiar. Right. That's one of the things I liked about it is like, oh, I've kind of done these before, so this isn't hard.
 
Robbie Wagner: [20:52] Yeah, I mean, it sounds cool to me. I don't know if I'll have a project that's not in Ember that I can try it on anytime soon, but.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [20:59] Astro and Solid using Prisma. That would be an interesting stack.
 
Robbie Wagner: [21:03] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [21:04] Because I've only used it in Next.js in their API routes. And it's kind of real straightforward in that because API routes essentially end up being, like, serverless mini APIs.
 
Robbie Wagner: [21:14] Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. I think I would love to do a lot more Astro and Solid, but I don't know. I don't know if the world is 100% ready for it yet.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [21:24] They don't know they're ready for it.
 
Robbie Wagner: [21:26] There's a lot of people doing cool stuff in them, but it's like the major players in the technology space are not like, oh, yeah, let me rewrite my app in this real quick.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [21:35] Right.
 
Robbie Wagner: [21:36] So I think it'll get there.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [21:38] It'd be cool to have a greenfield project with carte blanche and say, we think this is the best option moving forward. I wouldn't mind doing, like, doing an Astro Solid test and then doing just a straight SolidStart test and also looking at the pros and cons of those two because I'm certain there are there's times where one versus the other.
 
Robbie Wagner: [22:01] Well, SolidStart is more like a Next.js type of thing. Right. So it's like it'll do more like server side or client side or static or whatever you need, and then can lend itself to more interactivity than Astro would. Astro is really for mostly static things within like you can escape hatch that if you need some interactivity, which is, in my opinion, what 90% of the web is, it's like, here's this information, and then maybe after you've read the information, you want to hit buy now or something.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [22:37] Yeah, it was a small portion to that. Yeah. Because you kind of wonder in the sense of, like, if you were thinking about an admin portal, could you pull that off in Astro? Should you? Maybe? I mean, do you want your forms? Your forms? Forms are forms. Right. But when you're looking at tabular data, things like that. So crud operations and an admin panel, I think you could do it.
 
Robbie Wagner: [23:02] Yeah, I'd love to talk to Fred about this. We're going to have him on in a couple of weeks, and that's kind of my main thing I want to talk to him about is, like, the use cases for and against Astro. And mainly, what do you do in complex apps with a lot of interactivity and doing lots of data fetching and manipulation and stuff? Because they don't really have great docs on that until we write them.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [23:24] Well, there you go. That's the challenge. Contribute, contribute, contribute.
 
Robbie Wagner: [23:29] So we'll find out.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [23:30] Maybe if I get a NASA jacket. Nate.
 
Robbie Wagner: [23:33] Yeah, there you go.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [23:34] That'd be pretty cool.
 
Robbie Wagner: [23:36] Yeah. I forget what I was saying before that, but is it time to move to what not yet?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [23:41] What time are we at? We can bounce back and forth, you know.
 
Robbie Wagner: [23:45] Oh, no, we're not that far in. We should probably do some more.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [23:48] No, we made some assumptions around use case, and because I'm not really clear, I know SolidStart was released. I know it's intention for it to be sort of like your Next.js or whatever to get started on scaffolding out an app and patterns and, I guess, a CLI along with it, that kind of stuff. But I just haven't. I haven't looked at it. We use Solid, obviously, in some parts of our site, but outside of that, like, dabble, I don't know for sure. So that's kind of like why it would just give me an excuse to dig into it and say, oh, okay, I can do it this way, or I can do it this way.
 
Robbie Wagner: [24:23] Right.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [24:23] What are the pros and cons of each?
 
Robbie Wagner: [24:25] Well, have you read the Remix docs? Because the docs are the same.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [24:30] All right, okay. Right. So basically, everything's the same, and it's fine. It's just really about branding, right? No, I haven't. I mean, I've dug through the Remix docs a little bit. I forget what I was looking up and something that Kent was talking about, and I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, it was probably like an intro. He talked about the intro docs or something, and just kind of pulls you through how things work. Yeah, but not since then. No. Yeah.
 
Robbie Wagner: [25:04] I never got a chance to try it for anything before they were acquired, and now I don't know, it's just not as hip and cool once you're acquired, I feel like. Some people probably think the opposite way, right? If, like, oh, you've been acquired, that means you're validated, I should try it or whatever.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [25:20] Right.
 
Robbie Wagner: [25:20] But I don't know, I like the Astro community feel, and just open source, and no one owns it. And I don't love when places own a thing and then take it a different direction or whatever.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [25:33] Probably depends on whether you agree with said direction or something because nobody owns Ember. But there's been a lot of monetary contribution from some large corporations, which inevitably affects things, right? So there's that.
 
Robbie Wagner: [25:47] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [25:49] You can't be a cool, hip-independent band forever. Sometimes you get signed to a major label, and the music is still fine.
 
Robbie Wagner: [25:57] Yeah, you're not wrong. Yeah, maybe we should try it out. I did enjoy that no one understood what any of that stuff was because it was like just a generic word remix.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [26:09] Right.
 
Robbie Wagner: [26:09] And Shopify buys them, and someone sees, like, a quick headline about it, and they're like, oh, Spotify bought Michael Jackson's remix to something. Like they bought a song or something.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [26:21] It's like, no, Shopify, though. Shopify, we should clarify because it would have been a lot cooler if it was Spotify. Just in the sense of, like, oh, the remix of all Taylor hits, greatest hits, and Michael Jackson.
 
Robbie Wagner: [26:34] Come on.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [26:35] Yeah. And Michael Jackson MJ. It's controversial still, though, isn't it? Michael Jackson? I mean, I don't know. I grew up in the could at the toy store. Get the glove. And then you could be like. I have the glove. Michael has a glove. It's cool. I don't know.
 
Robbie Wagner: [26:53] Yeah, I don't know if we can endorse Michael Jackson, the singer, but we can.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [26:58] The person, right.
 
Robbie Wagner: [26:59] Endorse Michael Jackson, the person who worked on Remix. I think having the same name is of no consequence.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [27:08] Right, of course. Well, I'm not saying I endorse Michael Jackson, the singer. I'm just going down and maybe a rabbit hole of what not around. What's the line wherein you're not allowed to play Billy Jean anymore?
 
Robbie Wagner: [27:22] So my stance on all of this is separating the artist from the art. And I know a lot of people disagree with that but within reason. And I don't have a firm line for you, like, oh, maybe if he blew up an entire country or something, there's a line that he's crossed.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [27:42] Right.
 
Robbie Wagner: [27:42] You can't come back from, but when it's gray area and some of the things can't even be proven or whatever.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [27:49] Yeah. Prosecution is definitely probably a line too far, right? Actually.
 
Robbie Wagner: [27:56] Yeah, but it's like, clearly, with all the rumors and the things that some things happened at some point. Maybe not the best dude in his.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [28:04] Personal life
 
Robbie Wagner: [28:06] But.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [28:06] Maybe he's not R. Kelly.
 
Robbie Wagner: [28:09] Yeah, R. Kelly was pretty bad.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [28:11] Yeah. It wasn't hard to let go of that music, too, though, so I guess there's that, too. I have a lot more attachment to Michael Jackson songs in the 80s than I would like R. Kelly.
 
Robbie Wagner: [28:23] Yeah. R. Kelly is, like, similar to today's Chris Brown, where he's got some hits. It's kind of cool to listen to sometimes, but it's not like, oh, this is like I'm reaching for this song or anything.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [28:36] Yeah.
 
Robbie Wagner: [28:36] So when Chris Brown also inevitably goes to prison for life, that'll be okay.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [28:41] He'll beat one too many women and finally get his just two.
 
Robbie Wagner: [28:46] We'll see.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [28:47] Interesting. Well, anyway, there you go. You didn't have that on the list of things to talk about. That's weird.
 
Robbie Wagner: [28:53] No, it goes where it goes.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [28:56] So, how was your holiday? It was fine, for the most part. We host Christmas, and so that tends to be a bit hectic. I'm of the opinion possibly next year, we forego hosting and get on a plane somewhere cool, like Hawaii. We'll see. It's a balance between, like, being around family and saying, let's actually relax over this season. Yeah. Decent New Year's, too. Went back to Roka Akor, which, yes, went back to Roka Akor, which is a Japanese steakhouse sushi place here in Scottsdale. Just one of our favorite restaurants. It's just a lot of, like, small plates for sharing and that kind of stuff. And it was so good. Yeah, I did that and then went to a friend's. A friend of my wife is turning 40. What? Div turn 40. And so they did a big New Year's thing for that. So we went there a little bit. Was home by 10:30, though.
 
Robbie Wagner: [29:55] Nice.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [29:55] And did not make it to the ball drop. We were like, and we're tired. It's 11:15. I don't care.
 
Robbie Wagner: [30:02] Yeah. So I'm going to flip my topics around here because you had mentioned steakhouse.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [30:10] Okay.
 
Robbie Wagner: [30:13] I believe it was a type of wagyu that we had had at Roka Akor that was amazing. I loved it there. Recently I forget when now, maybe like a week ago, we went to a restaurant, like, really fancy restaurant, and I got some wagyu, but I think it was like a fancier one to where it's not steak, like at all anymore. It's more like a pork belly or something. Like totally different.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [30:43] Yeah, so there's different grades and stuff, too. The kind that you got sounds like the very expensive a five-grade Japanese wagyu.
 
Robbie Wagner: [30:53] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [30:54] And I have had that too. It is kind of like putting a piece of butter in your mouth, and then it kind of just melts away. And it's interesting, but I don't think it's bad per se, but I do think it's, like, very rich. I think you end up getting just, like, a few ounces of it, and that's more than enough.
 
Robbie Wagner: [31:09] Yeah, so I didn't know what I was doing, and it was really expensive, and I was like, okay, I have to buy this in two-ounce increments. I'll just get six. That's a normal steak size, but it's more of a like 2oz almost would even be enough. It's more of like, I want to taste it for the experience. It's not to eat a steak.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [31:28] Yes.
 
Robbie Wagner: [31:28] So it was way different than I was expecting, and I didn't feel sick, per se, but it was, like, so much greasiness, basically, that I was just like, I don't love that I had this much of this.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [31:41] It's a lot of congealed fat.
 
Robbie Wagner: [31:44] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [31:44] I mean, let's be honest. Like, Japanese wagyu a5 is, like, super marbled. It's incredibly marbled. There's as much fat as there is meat in there, and so it's just a ton. And then when they cook it,  and it ends up, like, breaking down and everything you do, you're just like having slices of butter, kind of.
 
Robbie Wagner: [32:00] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [32:01] The first time I had that, I did it, like some of that, and it was basically like a Pepsi Challenge thing. So it was like that and then normal American wagyu. And I was like, oh, well, I mean, very different experiences. I thought both were tasty, but I could eat a steak of one, and then the other, you're like, yeah, this is plenty.
 
Robbie Wagner: [32:20] Yeah. So I've learned now. But it was disappointing because I was, like, looking forward to a normal steak, and then I was like, oh, this is not that.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [32:28] Now I'm hungry. Turns out my body doesn't run on pure fat, in spite of popular opinion. And you put it on here as just wagyu is not great, but you should be specific a5 grade Japanese wagyu because you have Japanese wagyu. But it wasn't like a5 grade at Roka Akor.
 
Robbie Wagner: [32:46] Right.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [32:46] I think they offer it, but you know?
 
Robbie Wagner: [32:48] Yeah. I knew that you would correct me on the details. I didn't need to be descriptive in the bullet point.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [32:55] It's weird. I think wagyu, in general, is supposed to be about process or something. Like, I don't know, being super tender and a particular kind of diet and like, whatever else. Because, like, there's American, and there's Australian, too. I don't think I've had the Australian.
 
Robbie Wagner: [33:12] Yeah, I don't know. But reverting back to holiday stuff. First, we went to Roanoke, and to my parents, and were there for, like, a week, did my parents' Christmas party. It was pretty fun. Then went down to Florida Christmas Eve. So we were like, oh, cool, it's going to be nice and warm down here. It wasn't. It was like 42 degrees or something, which was like, to be fair, about 40 degrees warmer than it was at home, so it was still a lot warmer. But.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [33:49] The storms that came through, we didn't have those during Christmas. We had our cold, cold rush cold. It's 59 degrees today, so it's pretty cold for us. But Christmas Day was 72.
 
Robbie Wagner: [34:02] Oh wow.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [34:02] Yeah. Very nice.
 
Robbie Wagner: [34:04] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [34:04] No sweaters needed.
 
Robbie Wagner: [34:06] Yeah, but I think it was a good mix because I could wear some sweaters for a few days, and then it got to be, like, 80s towards the end, and I could wear shorts for a couple of days. So it was good. Definitely lived up to normal Florida type of experience, I would say. Not that it's bad, I think a good way to describe it. I was talking to some people about it was like, if you're in kind of the Key West vibe all the time, I'm going to wear shorts everywhere. Right. So that kind of vibe, which I used to subscribe to, always wearing basketball shorts everywhere, so I get it. But we were looking for a fancy restaurant to go to for a date night, and it's just, like, not a thing because everything needs to be shorts accessible, I guess.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [34:55] Hawaiian shirts or whatever.
 
Robbie Wagner: [34:56] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [34:57] So, what part of Florida were you in? Kind of matters. Kind of doesn't.
 
Robbie Wagner: [35:01] It's Punta Gorda or Punta Gorda.
 
Robbie Wagner: [35:04] So the people there said Punta, but I think that sounds really harsh. We were saying Punta.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [35:08] Punta. Punta. Gorda. I don't know where that is.
 
Robbie Wagner: [35:12] It's 30 minutes from Fort Myers. It's, like, on the Gulfside, southwest Gulfside.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [35:18] Okay.
 
Robbie Wagner: [35:19] So pretty far down.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [35:20] Okay. There we go. Yeah. My brother lives in St. Pete Tampa area, so yeah, that's closer up to getting into the peninsula of the Gulf or whatever.
 
Robbie Wagner: [35:32] Right.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [35:32] So this would be, like, closer down, like, going towards Miami.
 
Robbie Wagner: [35:36] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [35:36] Okay.
 
Robbie Wagner: [35:37] Yeah. I think it's, like, a couple of hours from Miami.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [35:39] Okay. Could have gone down to see Will Smith get a slap.
 
Robbie Wagner: [35:44] Well, they did recommend they're like, oh, go down to South Beach for the night and get a hotel or whatever. And we're like, do you know how old we are? I recognize that we're not that old, but inside, that sounds like a lot of work. And then you get there, and it's like, I'm not going to go to a club, or if I do, it's going to be more of a low key I don't know. I don't want, like, a dance club anymore. That's just not my scene.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [36:10] No, I would say, did you have your son with you?
 
Robbie Wagner: [36:12] Yeah, but the grandparents had offered to just keep him, and we go down, and I was like, I like that part, but maybe we just get a hotel right down the street and don't even go.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [36:23] You just tell them you did, and yeah, that would have been amazing.
 
Robbie Wagner: [36:27] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [36:27] And just book, like, nice reservations and good to go. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, obviously, Miami is a decent-sized city with dining options and stuff, right? But yeah, South Beach, that's kind of the vibe. I don't know. People watching would be funny. I wouldn't go to a club, but if it went down there and if it wasn't with children, because you know, it's going to be so loud. That's the other side of the things.
 
Robbie Wagner: [36:48] Yeah. I'm just also at the point in my life where if I have a night free, what I don't want to do is drive two or more hours, and then the next day drive two or more hours because then I've just wasted all that time, which is like the equivalent of the amount of free time I might have in a day. So it's just not worth it anymore.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [37:10] Yeah, I get that. Especially at this age for your son, it's sort of like crapshoot. So I want to maximize the downtime, the quiet time, the self-time.
 
Robbie Wagner: [37:21] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [37:21] Because I was always someone who needed some recharge time alone. And then you have kids, and then that stops ever being an opportunity. Your spouse and yourself are kind of back and forth. What do you mean? You had 30 minutes to yourself. I'll be taking 30 minutes now to myself. Enjoy your time with the kids.
 
Robbie Wagner: [37:39] Yes, it is very much like that. And it's a hard balance because it's like, I'm working all day, and I'm like, I would love to have, like, 30 minutes free when I get home or when I'm done working. And just like, no, because Caitlin's been watching him all day, so she wants 30 minutes free. So it's like.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [37:57] Yeah.
 
Robbie Wagner: [37:57] But we have a good schedule.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [37:59] Yeah, it sounds like you don't ever make the mistake around. Like, but I've been working all day. And she's like.
 
Robbie Wagner: [38:05] Oh, I said that maybe one time. Yeah, you don't do that.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [38:10] No, guess what? They're both jobs.
 
Robbie Wagner: [38:12] Okay.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [38:12] Yeah. And you come back, and you're with the children, and then you're like, well, now they've gone to bed. Maybe I can have a little time to myself. And then your spouse is like, well, you don't want to spend time with me now? No, no, of course, I do. Let's put on a 90-day Fiance so you'll be excited.
 
Robbie Wagner: [38:33] Yeah. I mean, luckily, like, we're good about that balance. We have a few shows we watch together, and then Caitlyn has stuff she wants to watch, and I have stuff I want to watch. So sometimes we'll just watch different stuff, and doesn't have to always be the same, like, watching something together.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [38:47] I have started Andor three times, and for whatever reason, every time I started on my own, it's the night that I'm going to fall asleep in the middle of a show. I hear it's great, but I can't get it started.
 
Robbie Wagner: [38:59] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [39:00] So I'm having a real challenge there.
 
Robbie Wagner: [39:01] I still haven't watched past the first episode because it's just like, there are other shows I'd rather watch. It hasn't drawn me in yet. I think it will, but it just hasn't gotten there yet.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [39:11] I still need to watch season six of Peaky Blinders, too.
 
Robbie Wagner: [39:15] Oh yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [39:16] I've got a number of them.
 
Robbie Wagner: [39:17] That's so good. That one, like, watch one of those, and you'll remember how good it is, and you'll want to watch the rest.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [39:22] Yeah. And then you get into the vibe, too, because, like, you need to pay attention a little bit to their accents to understand what's going on. And then once you do, you just want to keep watching because you're like, okay, I got it. Now let's just keep this going.
 
Robbie Wagner: [39:35] Yeah. I mean, it doesn't disappoint. There's lots of killing and lots of twists and turns, and you know.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [39:41] Right yeah.
 
Robbie Wagner: [39:42] I was worried because he was kind of, like, losing his edge a little bit in some of the previous seasons and stuff that it was going to be not boring, but just like, but no, it's good.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [39:53] Is there going to be another main character who comes up and takes over or something that was kind of making you wonder, like, oh, this is kind of the fall, right?
 
Robbie Wagner: [40:01] Yeah, but no, it's very good. Highly recommend.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [40:05] Fair enough. Fair enough.
 
Robbie Wagner: [40:07] Did you ever watch Spirited as I recommended?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [40:10] So we started it, and we could not finish it.
 
Robbie Wagner: [40:16] We were like, do you not like musicals?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [40:18] Not really, but I like, you know, satire and that kind of stuff, but it was a little too much singing for both of us, and we were like, I don't know. I get the vibe they're trying to do, but it's just not working for me. I don't know.
 
Robbie Wagner: [40:34] Yeah, I loved it. I mean, I think it was a little more singing than I would have liked if I'm being honest about it. But I like that they poked fun at that. Where the guys like, no, no, we don't need a song here. There's no song. There's a song.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [40:49] Exactly. That's what it was, just a lot of that, and then it was like, oh, this is a running joke. And we got like, I don't know, halfway through, we both were like, right now, we can't do any more of this. Okay. I don't know.
 
Robbie Wagner: [41:02] Are there other musicals you have, like, did you like what's it called? One with Hugh Jackman? Greatest Showman?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [41:09] Yeah, but mostly just because of, like, I watched it with my kids, and they were they loved it, so it was kind of, like, fun through them. I'm not sure I would have been into it on my own.
 
Robbie Wagner: [41:20] Got you.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [41:20] I remember there was a Woody Allen, like satire musical called, like, Everyone Says I Love You or something. I had, like, Edward Norton, and I want to say, like, maybe Drew Barrymore or something, but there wasn't a ton of singing in that. There was, like, singing because it was a musical, but it wasn't, like, crazy. Right? I don't know. I remember liking that. I'm not sure if that would be the case 20 years later still. I mean, it's been a while since that was out.
 
Robbie Wagner: [41:45] Yeah, I guess. Similar. Did you see Hamilton when they put it on Disney, or Did you go see the play ever?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [41:54] No, didn't go see it, but did watch it on Disney and found it interesting. But I wasn't like people were did go and see the Book of Mormon, and that was funny. Yes. So that was great.
 
Robbie Wagner: [42:06] I like the Book of Mormon, but yeah, Hamilton, for me, it's not singing per se because a lot of it was, like, rapping or whatever.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [42:16] Yeah, yeah, that's the thing.
 
Robbie Wagner: [42:17] But it's I didn't love that. It was like, literally, like, they say maybe three to five words before the next song hits.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [42:24] Yeah.
 
Robbie Wagner: [42:25] My type of, if it's going to be a musical, give me, like, a couple of scenes of normal dialogue and then have a song to reinforce the dialogue or something.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [42:33] Yeah.
 
Robbie Wagner: [42:33] I don't like when they're singing back and forth to each other the entire time.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [42:37] Yeah, well, I was getting that vibe out of Spirited. I don't know.
 
Robbie Wagner: [42:41] Yeah. I don't know. I liked it. I mean, Ryan Reynolds is in, and then he can do no wrong.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [42:47] You can't wait for Deadpool four.
 
Robbie Wagner: [42:49] Oh, yeah. Isn't three, though? Yeah, three is the next one.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [42:53] Okay. I don't know.
 
Robbie Wagner: [42:54] And four, though. As many as he wants to make.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [42:56] Yeah. I mean, it helps fuel his football team. Did you watch Welcome To Wrexham?
 
Robbie Wagner: [43:04] No, I need to watch it.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [43:05] There's more Rob McElaney than there is Ryan Reynolds, but still, he's there. He's a big part of the process.
 
Robbie Wagner: [43:13] Ryan Reynolds is good in everything, in my opinion. He's good in his Mint Mobile commercials, so why not this other show?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [43:20] Yeah, there's funny. Did you watch the Letterman has that Netflix show, My Next?
 
Robbie Wagner: [43:25] Needs No Introduction or whatever.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [43:27] Was it like My Next Guest is something like that? He did one where he goes over to their house and has the interview at Ryan's house. And Ryan also has a pizza oven, so it makes him some pizzas and stuff too. It's kind of funny.
 
Robbie Wagner: [43:44] Interesting. Yeah, I haven't really watched that. I used to watch a lot of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee or whatever.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [43:53] Yes.
 
Robbie Wagner: [43:54] That was a good one.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [43:55] Yeah, I'm a big fan of that. I like cars. I like comedians.
 
Robbie Wagner: [43:58] I never really started the Letterman one though.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [44:00] I kind of cherry-picked. I think I watched the first season kind of cherry-picked a second. And it's been kind of the same with everything since then. I don't know. I'm not really into Kim Kardashian. She has quite a platform already.
 
Robbie Wagner: [44:14] Yeah.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [44:15] I don't know. I watched the Kanye one, but that's like watching the Titanic as it's sinking. There's nothing I can do about that. And man, that's kind of interesting.
 
Robbie Wagner: [44:26] Yeah
 
Chuck Carpenter: [44:27] He's definitely jumped the shark at this point. So there you go. How far is too far? Can I listen to Kanye songs anymore? I don't know. I mean, I can listen to the good albums, right?
 
Robbie Wagner: [44:37] Yeah. So that's another thing, is like if they do a bad thing, is everything before the bad thing okay? Is that fair game?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [44:46] Yeah.
 
Robbie Wagner: [44:46] Because if so, he's not making good music anymore now, so it doesn't matter.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [44:50] Yeah, there's no loss. I never bought those ugly shoes. Yeah, like all those things are fun.
 
Robbie Wagner: [44:58] Yeah. I also think it's how public is the thing. If you wear the shoes, people will see you wear them. You listen to the music at home. People are into weirder, more fucked up shit than listening to an old Kanye song.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [45:15] Right.
 
Robbie Wagner: [45:16] I think it's not that bad at the end of the day.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [45:18] I mentioned Woody Allen. I haven't watched any of his movies in a while, but I have enjoyed his movies definitely throughout life. Do I get to go back and watch anymore? I don't know. Because I mean, I do think he did some fucked up stuff.
 
Robbie Wagner: [45:31] Yeah. I mean, does anyone listening like House of Cards, right?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [45:37] Yeah.
 
Robbie Wagner: [45:37] Because you're all canceled.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [45:39] Right? Yeah. I thought that show was amazing. It's the art from the artist. And I'm sure if we looked at lots of heralded artists throughout time, I mean, if you had today's investigative systems and the speed of information and stuff, I'm sure lots of them would be canceled.
 
Robbie Wagner: [46:00] Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of that is like the more powerful you become, the more you think you can do whatever you want. So you're like, there's no consequences if I do this thing that I would never do before, but maybe I'll try it now and then there are consequences actually.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [46:15] I mean, it's certainly why I seek more and more power as I get older. Because I just want to be able to say I'm going to do whatever I want. But I think my things that I want to do are probably less controversial, you know?
 
Robbie Wagner: [46:28] Yeah, that's true.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [46:30] Yeah. I just want to buy like a million-dollar collectors one off car, and then, like, drive it for a year and drive people crazy like that. I want to buy James Dean's first Porsche and then drive it until it falls apart.
 
Robbie Wagner: [46:46] Write your name on it.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [46:48] Noone ever get to collect it or not exactly. In Sharpie, write my name on it or scratch it into the door or something and just enjoy it, because I think that purpose-built things. I feel this about whiskey, right? There's a massive whiskey culture around collecting bottles and getting bunkers, and, oh, I found this rare bottle, and so I bought all five are on the shelf because screw everybody else who could have also enjoyed this thing. And if you want one, I'll sell you one for $1,000, so I can pay for the other four I bought. And it's just like a real it's an asset, and it was distilled to be drank, so I don't like trophies like that. I have a thing against trophies. So I would want like I mean, this is not a kids show. I want fuck you money so that I could take things that are inappropriately collected and use them for their initial purpose.
 
Robbie Wagner: [47:41] You're like the guy that stands in line for days, gets the first iPhone, and then breaks it in front of everyone for the shock value.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [47:51] No, I don't think I would do that. It's not a shock value thing. Like, I would get the first iPhone. I wouldn't buy the first two and then resell the second one for ten grand more because I'm greedy.
 
Robbie Wagner: [48:04] Right.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [48:04] I would take the thing that I think is being inappropriately kind of protected. We're not talking about, like, art. I wouldn't buy art and destroy it. I would buy something that maybe someone is sitting in a warehouse, buying a rare Lamborghini, sitting in a warehouse, and be like, start that thing and drive it and take it on a track and enjoy it for what it is.
 
Robbie Wagner: [48:30] Yeah, that's fair.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [48:31] Oh, I don't care if its value is hurt by this activity because one day I won't want it and sell it to the next person who gets to also enjoy it, because now I've done the thing you weren't supposed to do to the thing.
 
Robbie Wagner: [48:43] Yeah, that is true. It's always, like, nerve-wracking when you get a new car, and you're like, oh, I can't spill anything. I can't scratch anything. But as soon as it gets a little bit dirty, you're like, all right, I can just enjoy this thing. Now I don't have to worry about every little thing. So. Yeah, I get that.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [49:01] So those are my big rebellious moments with power. And I guess I'm linking power to money too tightly, but I think that probably rings true to a degree. It's a popular thing to say, oh, I want money, so I have power.
 
Robbie Wagner: [49:15] But I don't think it's a prerequisite. However, it's much easier to be powerful with a lot of money.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [49:22] Right yeah, I guess it depends on your goals, too, like, the kind of power you want to gain.
 
Robbie Wagner: [49:29] Right.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [49:30] I would want to buy inanimate objects and cause, use and wear to them, not to humans. And I want to buy humans and use them. So in case anybody is wondering, it's not on the list.
 
Robbie Wagner: [49:44] All right, we have a few minutes left. I'm just going to circle back to New Year's for a second. Well, I guess you didn't make it up until time, but so we found out, and I didn't know about this, that the guys on CNN are actually lit for the New Year's show. Have you heard about this at all?
 
Chuck Carpenter: [50:00] Well, I know that we turned it on, and we were like, what? It's probably what kind of made us decide we could just go to bed. I don't know. We were like, we got back, poured a little champagne, and we're like, okay. And we don't have, like, over-the-air TV and all that kind of stuff. So we're like, what New Year's shows can we watch? So we didn't get to watch Miley or whatever. And I think CNN Don Lemon was in New Orleans doing a thing. But it was weird. It felt like somebody was recording it from their iPhone and streaming it on CNN.
 
Robbie Wagner: [50:30] Okay, so the problem, too, is you're in a different time zone, though. So, like, the New York guys, it was Anderson Cooper, and what's the other guy's name? I can't think of it. But last year, they both took a bunch of shots on air and got really hammered. And basically, CNN forbid them from drinking this year.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [50:53] Oh, wow.
 
Robbie Wagner: [50:53] So then they were just bringing on other people who would take shots for them. So, like, Kevin Hart comes on, and he's got a new tequila brand. And he's like, all right, I'll just take like two or three shots of this for you. And then they bring on, I think, like, Anderson Cooper's parents or something. And they're like
 
Chuck Carpenter: [51:11] Yeah, he's a Vanderbilt.
 
Robbie Wagner: [51:12] And they're like 90. And they're like, hey, let me drink these shots of tequila or whatever.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [51:17] That's funny.
 
Robbie Wagner: [51:18] Yeah. And then, apparently, we didn't even realize because we were just having a good time and probably had a few too many drinks, but they missed the countdown for the New Year. They were listening to Back That Ass Up and missed the countdown.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [51:31] Wow.
 
Robbie Wagner: [51:31] And then they were like, oh, oops, it's the New Year now. But then they went to New Orleans after that, and they were just randomly talking to people about, I don't know, it got very different.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [51:45] Like old raptors that you've kind of heard of but not really from New Orleans. Yeah, it was just a real, and I think like I said, the production quality just made it seem weird to me. Oh, yeah. Like, okay, Don Lemon, like, I guess maybe he's from there and, you know, just kind of doing that New Year's party. Totally fine with that. But like I said, it felt like somebody was recording on their phone and.
 
Robbie Wagner: [52:08] Yeah, I don't know, it did feel like that. And there was, like, a big laundry basket of seafood that they had cooked because they did a big shrimp boil or something, but it was in, like, a laundry basket.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [52:22] Oh, that's weird. Yeah, that's a weird place to put it post-boil.
 
Robbie Wagner: [52:25] Yeah, I don't know.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [52:29] Yeah, New Orleans.
 
Robbie Wagner: [52:30] Anyway, all right, that's enough for this one. Thanks, everyone, for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe. Leave us some five-star ratings, if you please, and we will catch you next time.
 
Chuck Carpenter: [52:40] Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Thanks for listening to Whiskey Web and Whatnot. This podcast is brought to you by Ship Shape, produced by Podcast Royale. If you like this episode, consider sharing it with a friend or two and leave us a rating, maybe a review, as long as it's good.
 
Robbie Wagner: [53:00] You can subscribe to future episodes on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more info about Ship Shape and this show, check out our website at shipshape.io.