21: The Right Way to NFT, Blockchain, and Making Your Mark in the Digital Marketplace with Juan Palomino

Robbie Wagner: [00:09] What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another Whiskey Web and Whatnot with myself, Robbie Wagner, and my co-host, as always, Charles William Carpenter III. Today. Our guest is Juan, the founder of Full Speed Media. Did you get that right?

Juan Palomino: [00:28] Yeah, you did? Hello, listeners. What's up, Robbie? What's up, Charles? Chuck.

Chuck Carpenter: [00:34] Yeah, I was going to say you can call me our informal names. I just want to be known on the internet as a more.

Juan Palomino: [00:42] Got you.

Chuck Carpenter: [00:42] Yeah.

Juan Palomino: [00:43] Your username is very formal on here.

Chuck Carpenter: [00:47] Exactly. Yeah, we go by that on the internet when I enter in credentials. But we friends.

Robbie Wagner: [00:55] Yeah. So I guess don't tell us too much about yourself yet because we're going to be playing a game here where we need to figure out what's true about you. But if you want to give a little bit about your company, what you've been working on, and I don't know, just general stuff about you as a quick intro.

Juan Palomino: [01:13] Yeah, for sure. So my company, Full Speed Media, started as just a necessity for contracting some of my work and then providing some live streaming services last year during the pandemic to a couple of families and then a couple of other orgs that just needed the services when the time was called for it. Through that, I built a couple of different relationships in the Valley. So I'm based out of Phoenix, Arizona. That's where I am. And that's where I started building some relationships with local orgs. And there was quickly a need for some other web-based projects in regards to fundraisers and then mentoring as well. So I do a lot of mentoring with a local organization called the Si Se Puede Foundation. And I'm just, like, an overall nerd, man. I love building cool stuff, and I am obsessed with the latest tech and trying and experimenting different things in different areas. So, yeah, that's just a little bit about me without giving away too much. That's my aura elevator pitch.

Robbie Wagner: [02:13] All right, cool.

Chuck Carpenter: [02:14] It was kind of humble knowing some deeper things about you. I know how humble you were. There was no humble brag there. So good on you.

Robbie Wagner: [02:24] Yeah. I take Juan's word as gospel on what NFTs and tokens to buy. So we'll get more into that later. All right. I guess we could go ahead and do the game real quick. So this game is two truths and a lie. So I guess we could all do it, potentially.

Chuck Carpenter: [02:43] My gosh.

Robbie Wagner: [02:44] If our brains will work, but at least Juan. We'll force Juan, the guest, to do it.

Chuck Carpenter: [02:48] Yeah, I think so.

Juan Palomino: [02:49] At least me.

Chuck Carpenter:[02:51] Yes, at least you.

Juan Palomino:[02:53] So just start saying facts that may or may not be true.

Chuck Carpenter: [02:56] Exactly.

Robbie Wagner: [02:57] Well, no, it's two true and one lie, and we have to guess which one's the lie.

Juan Palomino: [03:02] Okay, so I chipped my front tooth on a scooter accident when I was nine years old.

Robbie Wagner: [03:10] Very specific.

Juan Palomino: [03:11] There's one. I wrote my first production code in 2019. So my first line of production code in 2019, and what is the last one? The last one is going to be that my mom. This is going to be about my mom. My mom makes the best tacos in all of Arizona.

Chuck Carpenter: [03:37] Since your family runs a market and restaurant, I'm going to go ahead and say the last one for me. I haven't had them yet. Shame on me. But I'm still going to go with that. I am going to pick that you did not. And don't tell us which one's right. Because Robbie's got to make a guess, too.

Juan Palomino: [03:56] Correct.

Chuck Carpenter: [03:57] I'm going to choose B, that you, in fact, did not commit your first line of production code in 2019.

Juan Palomino: [04:05] Okay.

Robbie Wagner: [04:06] See, I'm kind of leaning towards the first one because it was super specific, which makes me think that it's too many details. So I'm going to say the first one.

Juan Palomino: [04:18] The first one is actually true. I was trying to get some wicked sick air on a scooter and chip this bad boy right here. And then the second one is actually also true. It was making some utils that were being built for online digital graphics, which was a family business. Just calling some prices back. This is when I was still in boot camp. The last one is false because my mom makes the best tacos in all the world and the United States. Wow, only a couple of minutes in, and we're already pitching the fam.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:52] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [04:53] Technically, though, Arizona is included in that area, so still true. But we'll give you that.

Juan Palomino: [05:03]Technically, you are correct, Robbie. I cannot tell a lie.

Chuck Carpenter: [05:09] I'm going to have to consult the rulebook on this now. I don't know.

Juan Palomino: [05:12] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [05:13] Good plug there, though. I like it.

Juan Palomino: [05:15] All right, now you on the fly. One of you two?

Chuck Carpenter: [05:18] Yeah, Robbie, because he made this dumb game up. Let's go.

Robbie Wagner: [05:22] All right. I wrote my first production code in 2012. I used to be in a hardcore Christian band. I broke my leg when I was eleven.

Juan Palomino: [05:47] Broken leg. That's a lie.

Robbie Wagner: [05:49] What do you think, Chuck?

Chuck Carpenter: [05:50] I was going to pick broken leg.

Robbie Wagner: [05:52] Yeah. I didn't have a good lie prepared.

Chuck Carpenter: [05:56] Because I felt like the first two seemed a little like I've heard these things before, so they were familiar to me. Yeah, probably part of your origin story. So anybody who listened to that one is going to get it, right?

Juan Palomino: [06:09] Yeah. Spoilers.

Robbie Wagner: [06:11] Well, I don't know if we talked about the type of band I was in, did we?

Juan Palomino: [06:15] I think you did.

Chuck Carpenter: [06:16] You were in church basketball leagues, though, and so I'm just tying those two together. I'm also going to take a moment to go ahead and pour the today's Whiskey, which comes from Smooth Ambler, but it's actually a selected cask from a group called Lost Lantern, and they're doing like these American Whiskey series whiskeys. We got this from Seelbach's because they are better at this than we are.

Robbie Wagner: [06:44] Is it Bach or Bach?

Chuck Carpenter: [06:47] I go, Bach, like yeah, Bach's.

Robbie Wagner: [06:50] I'll look. You keep talking.

Chuck Carpenter: [06:51] Okay. I can handle that. So, yeah, it's an American whiskey, but it looks like it's bourbon, basically. Might be an issue with the I'll have to look. Oh, no. It is straight bourbon whiskey. 71% corn, 21% winter wheat. So it's wheated, and then 7% malted barley. Hopefully, you do the math. Give or take, that should be 100 aged five years. So must be in New American oak barrels. Yeah, it seems pretty cool. I like Smooth Ambler. Did you find the information?

Robbie Wagner: [07:23] I'm having a hard time finding this.

Chuck Carpenter: [07:27] The correct pronunciation? Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [07:29] Yeah. I've seen it.

Juan Palomino:[07:30] Is it B-A-C-H?

Chuck Carpenter: [07:32] Yes.

Robbie Wagner: [07:33] Yeah.

Juan Palomino: [07:33] Sealbach's. I feel like that's Bach.

Chuck Carpenter: [07:36] Yeah, that's Bach's. I can remember an old candy brand just called Bach's or something like that. Maybe it's because, in Cincinnati, we're pronouncing more German. I don't know.

Juan Palomino: [07:46] Bach lach. Yes.

Chuck Carpenter: [07:50] Feels like you should do that. That's not reflective of the whiskey, just so you know.

Juan Palomino: [07:53] Fair enough.

Chuck Carpenter: [07:54] Just what I was inspired.

Robbie Wagner: [07:56] Just wanted to make sure we got the Seelbach's pronunciation right because they're going to be picking a few whiskeys for us specifically in the coming episodes. So we need to know how to pronounce that.

Chuck Carpenter: [08:08] Yeah, there's no official linked deal yet, but I think we can ask them for proper logo usage and pronunciation as we move forward.

Juan Palomino: [08:17] Get the media pack.

Chuck Carpenter: [08:20] Lots of cherry there. Or maybe a little almond. Cherry almond. I don't know. Smelling it. And Juan does not drink, but he is going to join us in sampling something and giving some feedback and giving it kind of a rating. So as we smell and swirl things. Zona, tell us a little bit about what you got there.

Juan Palomino: [08:42] Yes, it's a sunrise breve latte blended from Coffee Zona. It's a fancy coffee.

Chuck Carpenter: [08:52] Now I'm a purist. I don't add anything to the coffees. I just get it from bean.

Juan Palomino: [08:59] You know, I usually don't either, but I felt the occasion warranted a little bit of flexing. This coffee was more than $5, so. Light flex.

Robbie Wagner: [09:09] And all the calories you need for the day.

Juan Palomino: [09:11] Yeah, it's definitely my lunch and a half.

Robbie Wagner: [09:15] Yeah, breve is half and half. Right. So it's just a latte made with half and half?

Juan Palomino: [09:19] I believe so.

Robbie Wagner: [09:20] Heavy cream.

Chuck Carpenter: [09:22] That's the way to do it, though. Yeah, you got to go full-fat.

Juan Palomino: [09:25] I mean, it's silky smooth.

Chuck Carpenter: [09:29] This is this is well, it's got a little burn. Just because it's high proof. Sorry, we're regressing back to our whiskey thing here. It's got a little burn on the way down, but yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [09:40] We should have done a breve.

Chuck Carpenter: [09:41] Yeah, maybe. You look like you need a breve today. We're really taking it the wrong direction. So yeah. Little leathery, little again, kind of even in the taste. I get some cherry, but instead of almond. I'm tasting more of, like, banana peel kind of or banana leaves. Like, if I smell banana leaves, this is like, what I'm tasting.

Robbie Wagner: [10:04] Yeah. I smell basically nothing, which is odd because it is very, very burny. When I drink it.

Chuck Carpenter: [10:15] Hurts.

Juan Palomino: [10:16] Burny.

Chuck Carpenter: [10:18] Burny. Yeah. So that's I don't know if you've caught on on any previous episodes. One, but the burn as alcohol goes down. Well, in Kentucky, we call that the hug.

Juan Palomino: [10:29] Yeah. So it's like I've heard that you want it to burn, and then you add just enough water till it doesn't burn to taste. That's the method, right?

Chuck Carpenter: [10:40] Yeah. It's a good way to go about it. Yeah. There was a place with a Jack Rose in DC. That I would go when I lived there and learned some of those things, refined my tastes a bit, and they were always, like, have when you get a poor, you have your first one as the distiller intended and get a taste of that. And then the most basic thing is going to add a couple of drops of water, then see what it opens up, see what you get there. And then beyond that, if you just enjoy it chilled or you've had it before, add your ice or ice cube, as Robbie does. He makes it a slushy sometimes.

Juan Palomino: [11:15] Yes. Blended, please.

Chuck Carpenter: [11:17] Yes. Heavily blended.

Juan Palomino: [11:19] Heavily blended.

Chuck Carpenter: [11:20] Spot of red syrup as well.

Robbie Wagner: [11:22] Oh, God. What would they do if you tried to order a blended whiskey at a bar? Would they do it? Would they put it in a blender with some ice?

Chuck Carpenter: [11:31] Probably. I would say most bars would just be like, okay, let me have your money. But I'm sure if you went to a nice.

Juan Palomino: [11:40] Just immediately reach for the bottom shelf.

Chuck Carpenter: [11:42] Yeah, exactly. You clearly just whatever. Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [11:47] Although I did get a new fancy ice mold that's supposed to make, like, really clear ice cubes. So stay tuned for that.

Chuck Carpenter: [11:56] I've always been very curious about those but then been dissuaded by the cost. It's sort of like, do I really I don't know, do the ones that aren't clear hurt?

Robbie Wagner: [12:07] I think it was, like, $35. There are some that are, like, $200, and people are saying the $35 works just fine.

Chuck Carpenter: [12:16] Okay, well, I'm looking forward to that review. Yes. I hope you tweet your review.

Robbie Wagner: [12:21] I will. It'll be so clear. It'll just be like you can't see it. It's just my fingers holding it.

Chuck Carpenter: [12:26] Just remind me. I have a special announcement later. It'll have to be post NFT discussion.

Robbie Wagner: [12:31] Okay. Yeah. So in terms of rating, I'm not a big fan of this. It's not terrible. I would give it, like, a three.

Chuck Carpenter: [12:41] Wow.

Robbie Wagner: [12:41] It just doesn't have a lot of interesting flavor to me, and it burns a lot.

Chuck Carpenter: [12:45] I'm really enjoying it

Robbie Wagner: [12:46] but maybe I'm just having a bad day today. I don't know.

Chuck Carpenter: [12:49] Yeah. You feel a little sick?

Robbie Wagner: [12:50] No.

Chuck Carpenter: [12:51] Can affect your taste. Budge? No, I'm enjoying this. I'm not like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. But I think it's quite good. I like a lot of Smooth Ambler, so a bunch of their stuff in the past I've been into Old Scout was, like, their big brand of barrel picks that they would get from MGP and do their own thing with. But I'm just tasting again to see if I'm wrong. But no, still like it.

Robbie Wagner: [13:14] I mean, I don't hate it. I'm just saying, like, given any other whiskey, I wouldn't choose it. Aside from that one maple syrup one we tried, I would steer away from this one. I'm just not a fan.

Chuck Carpenter: [13:28] See, for me, I'm getting a little bit of that cherry without feeling like it's sweet, especially with the corn and the wheat. I was like. I don't know, this can be weird. So I'm giving it a six tentacles.

Juan Palomino: [13:39] Okay.

Chuck Carpenter: [13:40] This is where we disagree, my friend. So what are the tasting notes? You have one for your zone of coffee.

Juan Palomino: [13:48] This breveis properly blended. I like the consistency. It's not too crumbly like you get in some other iced coffees, and you get big chunks of ice. So Kudos Coffee Zona, pretty silky and smooth, but definitely leaves, like, a little aftertaste of the cream. So we're going to go with five tentacles, right? Because I will need a Perrier after.

Chuck Carpenter: [14:12] That's, right? You'll need at least three additional tentacles to hold your Perrier.

Juan Palomino: [14:16] Yes.

Chuck Carpenter: [14:17] Good call. Good call.

Robbie Wagner: [14:19] So I see how you tried to steer us away from you playing the game, Chuck, but we're going to need you to give us three things.

Chuck Carpenter: [14:28] Okay. Yeah, I really thought I was over that, so I stopped. I'll just go with this. I'm the one that said, let's improv. Okay, cool. I once played the star present in a Christmas play in grade school. My favorite food is hamburgers, and I was once a PHP developer.

Juan Palomino: [14:56] The hamburgers is false.

Robbie Wagner: [14:59] Yeah. So that's what I would think. But I have clarifying questions, I think because you would have to have cheese on it, right? So it would have to be a cheeseburger. Like, everyone likes cheese.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:10] There's no follow-up questions. It's just three pieces of information, and you decide which one is true.

Robbie Wagner: [15:17] All right, well, then I'm saying the hamburger is false.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:20] Correct. It's cheeseburgers, damn you.

Juan Palomino: [15:23] It's cheeseburger.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:24] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [15:25] I was going to say my mom is the only person I've ever met that doesn't like cheese on a burger.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:32] And my son, your mom, and my son could hang out. He only wants ketchup and pickles on his burger. It's very specific. This is all I want.

Juan Palomino: [15:39] A true purist.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:41] But he only likes cheese pizza, though, and mac and cheese. These kids will crush. So again, you don't dislike cheese.

Robbie Wagner: [15:51] Right. Yeah, same with my mom.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:52] Why don't you try it on this other thing you like?

Robbie Wagner: [15:54] I don't get it. It's like she eats cheesy everything, but yeah, it can't be on sandwiches or burgers.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:00] What about it, like a cheesesteak? Does she get it sans cheese?

Robbie Wagner: [16:04] I don't know that I've seen her get one.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:06] If you get a legit like Philly cheese sake, it's whiz with whiz, they call it. Yeah.

Juan Palomino: [16:11] I visited Philly for the first time, and they asked me if I wanted Cheese Whiz. And I didn't know anything about the meta, so I was just like, oh, laid on me, baby. When in Rome, right?

Chuck Carpenter: [16:23] Right. Did you go to Gino's and Tony's? Or did you just go to another place?

Juan Palomino: [16:27] I don't remember the name, but it was at some sort of market.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:33] Oh, okay.

Juan Palomino: [16:33] In downtown Philly near.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:36] Got you.

Juan Palomino: [16:36] The bell.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:37] No, you would know because they're on the same street. They're like the OG cheesesteak places. And then people have a tendency towards one or the other, so I tried both.

Robbie Wagner: [16:49] Yeah, it's all the same.

Juan Palomino: [16:51] We had like a six-hour layover, so we were trying to be, like, in and out and still make our flight out.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:57] Yeah, I'm sure it was good. They say it's the water and the bread. I don't know.

Robbie Wagner: [17:01] Yeah, good bread makes a sandwich.

Chuck Carpenter: [17:04] Fun fact. So monopoly's properties are partially based on New York properties and some in some in Philly. And the waterworks, for example, is based on Philadelphia Water Works that you if you do, like, a little river ride thing, you go by it.

Juan Palomino: [17:24] Pennsylvania Railroad or Pennsylvania ave.

Chuck Carpenter: [17:28] Although we had a Pennsylvania Ave. in Washington, DC.

Juan Palomino: [17:31] So I don't know, chicken or the egg, I guess. Who had it first, who wore it best, really is what matters.

Chuck Carpenter: [17:39] Philly was the first US capital.

Juan Palomino: [17:41] And then Hamilton traded it off for the banks and was just like, I still have all the power.

Chuck Carpenter: [17:48]That guy, his musical isn't that great.

Juan Palomino: [17:51] The more you know.

Chuck Carpenter: [17:54] Okay, should we get into interesting technical topics?

Juan Palomino: [17:57] Let's talk interesting technical topics.

Robbie Wagner: [17:59] Whoa. Is this not interesting?

Chuck Carpenter: [18:01] Well, subjectively interesting, of course.

Juan Palomino: [18:04] Lynn Manuel Miranda would beg to differ, sir.

Robbie Wagner: [18:07] Yeah, we'll get him on what NFT is he buying.

Chuck Carpenter:[18:12] The Encanto ones. I learned he did all the music for it in the Encanto animated film.

Robbie Wagner: [18:18] Interesting.

Juan Palomino: [18:19] That sounds interesting.

Chuck Carpenter: [18:20] Thanks, wife, for telling me that.

Robbie Wagner: [18:25] Anyway, yeah, we should probably get into some tech stuff. The obvious one. We know you've been working on your own NFT fundraising project, Juan. You want to talk a little bit about that?

Juan Palomino: [18:36] Yeah, thanks for asking about it. It's called Viva Muertos. That's V-I-V-A-M-U-E-R-T-O-S. You can go to vivamuertos.com. It's actually a local fundraiser for Valleywise Health Foundation. They support Valleywise Health hospitals, which are the county hospitals here in Maricopa County. They are the largest provider of mental health in Arizona, serving over 5000 patients every single year. And this past year, they ran a program called Emerging Leaders that was kind of like a year-long cohort of professional development and community service. And networking, all culminating in this like, Shark Tank-style presentation for projects that are geared towards new donors, specifically in the millennial age range, that can be accomplished in a short amount of time. So that was like the acceptance criteria. And it was six teams. We all went up against each other and did our little pitches. And then the panel of judges came back and said, this is the project that is going to get made. And they chose our project. So we partnered with local artist Lalo Cota, who is this guy is amazing. He's been doing mural art here in Phoenix and around the country now for over a decade. So he does this muralist work that is based on Dia de los Muertos characters, and he's been painting since he was like nine years old and came to the US. So we partnered with him to create this NFT drop, which was an agreement between him and the nonprofit where he gets a percentage of the initial sales and royalties after, and then the nonprofit gets the rest. And we as volunteers, myself and my partner, Lupe Valenzuela, we donated our time and our efforts to make the project happen. And we launched on Dia de los Muertos of 2021. The community has minted almost 100 tokens so far, raising just about $10,000. We're a little bit under that $10,000 mark for donating to Ethereum back to the nonprofit, and we're chugging right along one of the pieces of utility, right, like, because everybody listening is already asking, like, what's the utility? What's the utility? What are we getting for these NFTs? Kent C. Dodds talking to you, man. So the utility here is that, well, A, you're supporting a great cause because 95% of those sales go back to the nonprofit. So 95% of the initial sales right off the bat goes back to the nonprofit and is benefiting Arizona families. And Valleywise Health Foundation does a lot of good within the community. So there's that. You also get an original one-on-one NFT that is programmatically developed by myself and drawn by Lalo. They have unique backgrounds, and ten of the tokens are actually going to be coming with a physical piece of art. So, like, one of them has already been minted. And if you happen to mint one of those, you will get a custom commission done on the background that your NFT came on. So there's ten unique backgrounds, and he made them, and I still have them in my possession, and they're waiting to just be minted for whomever gets that token. And then it goes out. There's various other things here and there that are going to happen. There's been some meetups and other stuff like that. But yeah, my participation specifically was building out all of the code that was used for it. So, like the smart contract, the front end, and everything like that between like the September 17 date when our project got picked and then November 1 when we launched. So that's kind of like my hands on most relevant experience in Web3 is writing a smart contract, architecting the logic, and then launching the project. So, yeah, that's how I got into the space, and I know both of you are supportive of that project. So thank you so much for doing that. Arizona thanks you, Valleywise thanks you. And I'm sure there's going to be a lot more to come with this project going forward because our entry point was, I think, really reasonable at .035 Ethereum, and especially for the cause, it's not a cash grab for any developers in this situation. And I know that's what a lot of people are looking at. How is this a quick flip? So I think we're providing a lot of value to the community. We're Arizona's first NFT fundraiser, and there's something to be said about that.

Chuck Carpenter: [22:56] Yeah, I agree with that. I feel like having that attached to your project should eliminate the fear of the rug pull. And whether it turns into some massive flipping opportunity on a secondary market is really very secondary to the benefit it's providing, the artwork it provides, that kind of thing.

Juan Palomino: [23:15] Yeah, I think that's fair.

Robbie Wagner: [23:17] So, initial, possibly stupid question. Why do they call it a smart contract?

Juan Palomino: [23:23] I think the same reason they called it a smartphone because contract and phone were already taken.

Chuck Carpenter: [23:29] Okay, right. It's like a contract.

Juan Palomino: [23:31] But smart.

Chuck Carpenter: [23:32] With technology.

Juan Palomino: [23:33] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [23:34] Does way more things. Of course, it's smart.

Juan Palomino: [23:36] So the thing is, in the Ethereum white paper, there's not really like a reference to smart contracts themselves. And don't quote me on this because it might be in there as smart contracts, but the overall message is that contracts are just wallets. They're just accounts that exist on the Ethereum EVM, and they execute code that they store. So they're very similar to your own wallet in that regard, but they are smarter than your wallet because they store code. And your wallet does not store code if it is non-custodial wallet.

Robbie Wagner: [24:10] Got you. So kind of the way it works then, I guess, is that wallet has some code that's like, okay, the address I got this from is now the owner of this thing I'm going to mint, and then it sends it back to you or something or how does that work?

Juan Palomino: [24:25] So when you deploy a transaction without an address on it, so you deploy it to zero x zero zero, the EVM knows that it's not a transaction going to anyone , and you're creating a new account. So when you're creating that new account, you give it whatever logic you want to create it. And usually, if you don't define who the owner is of the contract, then you become the owner of the contract. There's various tooling that allows that contract to be transferable or burnable or whatever else. And I think burnable might not be the right term. There but you can definitely make contracts not work anymore.

Chuck Carpenter: [25:00] So is this within Solidity, or is this something else?

Juan Palomino: [25:05] So my development has been completely within Solidity. Solidity is something that's like, I guess, newer ish in the EVM world. When Ethereum first came on, it was like Serpent. That's what people were using. And ultimately, Serpent is a higher-level language, but everything on the EVM is lower bytecode language that gets compiled. So, yeah, all of my development has been done in Solidity, and there's various other toolings that you can use if you're using like Python or something else. But me likey Javyscript.

Robbie Wagner: [25:40] Don't we all?

Chuck Carpenter: [25:41] And I think that's applicable to this podcast, where even our curiosities in other areas always kind of land back to our home. JavaScript is our home and we write it all over the place, everywhere we can.

Juan Palomino: [25:53] Yeah, we actually use it in our graffiti murals as well.

Juan Palomino: [26:00] I think it feels like sometimes like JavaScript is kind of like a passport of the world. Like I can go anywhere with this thing. There's somebody doing something with JavaScript.

Robbie Wagner: [26:10] Front end, back end, apps, everything. It's everywhere.

Juan Palomino: [26:14] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [26:15] You can't be stopped, can't stop, won't stop.

Robbie Wagner: [26:17] SpaceX uses it for their.

Juan Palomino: [26:20] Do they really?

Robbie Wagner: [26:21] How to fly rocket ships. Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [26:23] And Rust is a support mechanism to make JavaScript better. I like that.

Juan Palomino: [26:27] Yeah, I've been looking at Rust. It's one of those things that keeps getting closer and closer to the top of my list of, like, I'm going to give this some time and really get into it. But yeah, Rust looks very interesting.

Robbie Wagner: [26:39] I've been hearing about it forever, but I've never touched it myself.

Chuck Carpenter: [26:43] No. I came across this 24 days of Rust, and it was like a tutorial where it basically gives you a Node scenario and then the rust equivalent to help you learn and move to utilize that instead, which I thought was really interesting because you're familiar with Node and you can do some things. Then it might be a little more one-to-one do that thing, but faster. That's the promise. I don't know. That's all I know.

Juan Palomino: [27:09] Always faster.

Chuck Carpenter: [27:10] Yes. So I'm just looking up some notes here, and I'll let Robbie have the credit for this, but I'm going to say it. I'm curious about how you come up with how to algorithmically generate the images for a mint.

Juan Palomino: [27:24] Let me ask a question about the question. Are you talking about technically? How is it done? Or, like, how are the decisions made?

Chuck Carpenter: [27:30] Well, for me, I think a little bit more technically, and I'm assuming that's how it works because I'm maybe not. I read a lot of Web3 things, and I still feel like I don't know anything. And a lot of it is like you're defining traits, and there's these potential traits that occur, and then it kind of goes into a function, but there's some abstractions and rules into that. And whatever else, but to simplify it like, okay, great, I click the button. Function generates thing gathering random traits that are available gives you back image.

Juan Palomino: [28:03] Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much it, with a couple of nuances in between. But it's basically where the source images how often. And it's not really a how often. It's a how heavily do you want these weighted? And there's like a whole graph that I've looked at in tables that kind of define the difference between weights and percentages. So when you're adding the weights to each one of the layers, if you want something rarer, you give it a lower weight. So it's less likely that it's going to be chosen in the algorithm. But yeah, that's basically it is. You set up some folders with different layers, and the layers, like the way you acquire the layers, can be kind of different. Ours was kind of tedious because the artist hand drew everything, and so there was some going back and forth at first because the first set of drawings that I got from him were like complete characters. And so it was just like, wait, this was not really what we were thinking we were going to get. At first, we thought we were going to get the individual pieces. I would scan them all in, cut them out, copy over position, and then we're good. But instead, we had to scan in the entire characters and cut the pieces out individually and then position them until he came back with some the rounds two, three, and four were great, and they had like the individual cutouts and stuff, but it took a little bit of doing at first. So yeah, it's like organizing your work and then like iterations, iterations, iterations. Because when you add, like, if I'm a character right now and you're looking at me, and I add my glasses, but then I also add a different set of eyes where I'm like winking and now all of a sudden my glasses are off from the wink. Like that has to be accounted for. So it's like running tests for that was very visual, and it took a lot of graphic design skills of just like being very thorough with the different layers. And I think there's still some artifacts that you can see in the project of, like, well, why is that little line there? Or that like imperfection? And I think at the end of the day. It was a real testament to the project being an art experiment fundraiser, right? Like there's all these different things that had to come together and all these moving parts to make it happen. And at the end of the day, the algorithm and getting the pieces to work was one part of it, but it was also making the decisions on the front end with the artist and saying like, hey, we just ran this code for 3 hours, and we've got 10,000 unique pieces now. Can you, with the microscope, take a look at at least 100 of them and tell us is this authentic to your work? And I think taking the time to go back and forth with that and being able to say this is a Lalo Cota original was very important to the project. But from a tech point of view, it will go through and grab one random trait from each one of the folders that you tell it to grab it from. And so there's a further layer of abstraction where I'm saying I don't need you to necessarily know which folder you're grabbing this out of, but randomly pick a folder, so then I can vary the traits that come within a subset. So like, maybe I have male and female faces. And you need to either pick one first, so that's the first level of randomization. And then you go deeper and deeper. So writing all that in and making sure you don't have a weird matchup trait pop up was a lot of that.

Chuck Carpenter: [31:17] Interesting. So aside from manual and visual testing, is there any kind of testing that you can build into that upfront?

Juan Palomino: [31:26] Yeah, absolutely. So making sure that you don't have duplicates was really important. So tying all each one of the layers to a specific number value in the unique hash. So, like, each one of the pieces have a unique hash that is like its ID, and no two NFTs have the same token. And that's the unique part of it. So because each trait is tied to a value in the hash, you know that if there's no two repeating hashes, there's no two items that visually look the same. And so that's the built-in part of it where you start running the code, and for the first 1000 2000 iterations, you just create a new item, create a new item, and then all of a sudden, you start seeing where it's logging out, like, oh, this one already exists. So there's a good amount of testing that goes into making sure that your collection is like what you want it to be. And then also, I guess, testing the metadata.

Chuck Carpenter: [32:17] Yeah.

Juan Palomino: [32:18] Yeah. It can be. But there's a lot of tools being built and some stuff that I want to work on perfecting in my own personal toolset of settings and stuff that can go into Hardhat and writing your own test, just like we do in Web2. So I wrote a lot of tests for the contract itself and the logic behind the contract. That was where most of the testing was done.

Chuck Carpenter: [32:42] Yeah, I think there's a ton of opportunity in terms of toolsets and infrastructure around Web3, for sure.

Juan Palomino: [32:48] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [32:49] Taking some of the basis of what we have, but also saying, like, oh, some of the things we have aren't great. What would be better for this particular paradigm?

Robbie Wagner: [32:57] Yeah, I really want to host a website on my ENS, but I'm like, I'm really worried I'm going to mess the styles up. I don't want to spend $200 every time I want to change it. I just use it to identify my address because it's easier.

Juan Palomino: [33:14] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [33:14] Right. Yeah, same.

Juan Palomino: [33:15] That's what I'm using it for. Did you get some of the AirDrop that ENS? Did you get your name before the AirDrop thing?

Chuck Carpenter: [33:23] I don't think I did.

Robbie Wagner: [33:24] No. I mean, we got them pretty recently, like, maybe a month ago.

Juan Palomino: [33:30] But so that Fees.WTF.WTF was just like in knowing certain terms like, what the fuck? You know what I mean?

Chuck Carpenter: [33:38] It's ironic that they called themselves that because I'm not overly in on the lingo, but I have a friend who really is, and he was like, oh yeah, that was a rug pulll. I totally just bailed on that.

Juan Palomino: [33:50] Yeah, so it's like, to say that something is a rug pull, I feel like to me implies like, okay, this group specifically said we're going to build this thing. We're going to do it under the auspices that we're going to provide any amount of value, and then we're not going to provide any, and we're just going to grab the bag and run. Right. That's what I think is mostly what defines a rug pull. I think in this situation, it might just have been a lot of incompetence. Honestly, it didn't seem like there was enough liquidity lined up to be able to support the token pairs. And so maybe I'm naive in the world at this point to say, like, oh, that was for sure like a rug pull or not, but looking at it from the consumer standpoint, right? And just having benefited from the ENS AirDrop, where it was from one night to the other, it was like 5000 tokens, and it was like $3,000, right? Like verifiable. There's liquidity backing all this stuff up. And I'm like, all right, great. AirDrops rock. I love AirDrops now. And then I had heard of fees.WTF. I had referred people to them to check their gas prices and stuff. And I know that Gas Dow is out there, and this is another Dow for a decentralized autonomous organization that is doing something similar for people who have spent over three ETH on the marketplace. They're doing an AirDrop. And I was Ust like, that's inaccessible because I haven't done that across one account. And so I went for the fees.WTF. And then it was just like immediate gas war. And I was like. This is not it. Right. I think in one of our common chats, like, the only thing that I said was, this doesn't scale.

Chuck Carpenter: [35:16] Yeah, it really doesn't because I'm seeing like thousands and thousands of dollars in gas prices in order to get these tokens in exchange for the gas prices that I have already spent. Which it didn't make any sense. I think, more than anything, it was just a lack of transparency, regardless. Okay, so a rug pull essentially means you have an intentional goal there to take the money and run. And maybe that wasn't their intent necessarily, but I think that pumping this value that they're going to give and then not letting you know that the price to entry and that could get a little crazy. Intentional or not, it's very disingenuous. And so you're like, oh cool, this is cool. And I've talked to my friends about it, and now I click the button, and then there's a thing. And now I have to make an on-the-spot decision. Do I want to move forward with this promised value or am I dissuaded by that? In my case, it wasn't that much-promised value, so it was pretty easy to be like, yeah, that's a no same. But for other people who maybe have been in the game a little more and getting in on a lot more things, they might think that, well, the potential versus what I'm paying here might be something, and then who knows? So is that a rug pull? If they're just like kind of out?

Juan Palomino: [36:34] Yeah. And I mean, the stance that I was really looking at it from that day was like, okay, let me go provide some liquidity in one of these pools in uni swap or something and back this pair. And then now I'm getting yield on top of that. And I'm really glad I didn't, obviously, because we all saw what happened. People got drained for hundreds of thousands. So I think that there's a lot to be said there. And so, going back to the code, right? So looking at their contract, the one thing where I was just like, yeah, that's going to be a hard pass is they can change the commission rate that goes from user to user on the rail links. So when you create that little link where you get a percentage of they can change that. So it's just like that right there in itself kind of dismantles the whole kind of system itself of any sort of trust, because now you're just like, what are you even doing, right? Like you're kind of taking away the whole benefit of the immutability of your contract, right? So, yeah, there's a lot of that that's going out. And I think when you hear that so many of these projects are going to fail, it's because of stuff like that, right? Like where it's a land grab, or we're trying to do stuff real fast, and people don't understand, and we don't do our own research, and we don't look at the code, or we don't look at the stuff, or we don't know how to look at the code, right? There's a lot of that that's happening.

Chuck Carpenter: [37:46] Or maybe you just don't understand the implications across the entire landscape. And that is why I think that the technologies have a lot of potential. And where we're at with the technologies aren't necessarily how they will be realized in our everyday lives down the line, right?

Juan Palomino: [38:09] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [38:10] Okay. What's the utility of things providing value? It's a lot of marketing, there's all these other things, but I mean, it's pretty low risk to have a weird ape drawing and then lose some money on that three years down the line. But if my mortgage is on the line with similar technology, well, the fail rates need to be really ironed out so you can play around with it for other things. Like the ideology that an NFT equals JPEG is not necessarily true. It's just sort of the output that is popularized at this point, and it's fine, and that's its own thing. And I do think that there's a space for that too, but it's just not like a singular use case.

Robbie Wagner: [38:52] Yeah, I think it kind of is similar to anything else in life. Right. I potentially buy a lot of things just because it looks nice. Like they put a lot of work into it. Same is true with any of these projects, right? Like Fees.WTF is like? We wrote one line of HTML to put this website up. Here you go. If they had spent a lot of time on really planning everything out, getting nice designs, making everyone feel like a good community, doing all these things, I feel like any of those, whether they make you rich or not, I can't tell you. But you're not going to just lose all your money on it if they've really planned and care about it versus the way the other ones are.

Juan Palomino: [39:36] 100%.

Chuck Carpenter: [39:37] Yeah. And value is subjective in that sense. We got involved in Juan's project not because I thought that it was going to blow up an OpenSea and make me a bunch of money. I mean, although Juan, if you can get to work and make that happen, that'd be cool, but.

Juan Palomino: [39:54] Working on it.

Chuck Carpenter: [39:55] Conversely, local artists dig it. Muertos, they're cool. And then the whole, like, oh, nonprofit aspect of it, I'm happy to support that.

Juan Palomino: [40:04] Yeah, 100%. I think that overwhelmingly that's the tone right now is that everybody is so sick and tired of these ape derivatives and not yelling out any project in particular, but it's like now you're getting derivatives that are derivatives of derivatives, and it's like, where does it all end? So now people are crying for utility, and it's like, okay, well, where are we really at in the space? Because you know who else had utility? Everybody like JCPenney had utility, they're not around. Blockbuster had utility, they're not around. So I think a lot of people think that I can take my half-baked idea or my app idea, or my project idea that I've had in my back pocket forever. And I can just sprinkle blockchain because it's the new fancy thing. And ipso facto, like, here I am, project owner, manager, founder, XYZ, whatever titles I want to add.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:54] Well, if you want funding, you better use the right terminology, that's all.

Juan Palomino: [40:59] Yeah, for sure.

Chuck Carpenter: [41:00] Blockchain $5 billion evaluation. What exactly are you doing? Blockchain smart contracts.

Juan Palomino: [41:06] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [41:06] Didn't some company rename themselves to, like, blockchain something, and they don't even do anything technical?

Juan Palomino: [41:13] They're like, why not?

Robbie Wagner: [41:14] Marketing insurance or something.

Chuck Carpenter: [41:17] Why not? I mean, Facebook isn't in the Metaverse, but I guess their Oculus company kind of is.

Juan Palomino: [41:23] But they bought their way in.

Chuck Carpenter: [41:25] That's what you do.

Juan Palomino: [41:26] Yeah. And so to that end, I think that's the takeaway, right, is that, like, blockchain in itself is not this, like, secret ingredient that now makes everything better. It has become this, like, buzzword that people want to do a land grab for. But realistically, this is just the building blocks of how we're going to build bigger, better, more decentralized, more trustless applications and systems. And, like, a smart contract isn't always just an agreement between two people that needs to be executed. It's more typically like an impartial piece of code that just exists on the EVM. So, like, when we can start interacting with these things in more meaningful ways, like accountability. So there's like POAPs, proof of attendance protocols that are like they're not on the main net, they have their own subnet. And you start incentivizing attendance to certain things, and you start really building community. There's another local place called HoneyHouse, and they're doing NF Tuesday, so every Tuesday, they're meeting up, and they're doing stuff like meetups and things like that. So I think building the community for, like, a really long time is what's super important for these NFT projects. But again, NFT is just one side of this. There's DeFi. There's so much more.

Chuck Carpenter: [42:39] Yeah, the DeFi DAOs.

Robbie Wagner: [42:40] DeFi is fake. I don't understand it at all.

Chuck Carpenter: [42:44] I mean, do you understand traditional finance? Because I also don't understand that. But that's the stuff that moves things.

Robbie Wagner: [42:50] I learned some things over the pandemic about traditional finance.

Juan Palomino: [42:54] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [42:55] A lot of stuff on Robin Hood, but Defi is like, okay, so buy a couple of tokens now, pair them up and make a new liquidity token, and then we'll just give you interest on that.

Chuck Carpenter: [43:08] Okay. I have some interesting videos to show you on that. Oh, because they're market makers. Because they replace market makers. So in traditional finance, where you have market makers in order, so that's essentially what this liquidity pool stuff is all about. But I have videos that will say it better than me.

Robbie Wagner: [43:26] Yeah, well, I think it's mainly so other people can borrow out of that pool. Right?

Chuck Carpenter: [43:31] Absolutely. Or transact out of that pool. Right. Because there's all kinds of things happening there, but essentially being able to transact out of a pool whether it exists or not. And while traditional finance allows that to happen in a magic black box where you have a time frame to sort of create the asset as needed, and you have market makers, they're able to make it happen. This all happens without people, and it's real-time with computers, and so you need it available, or it fails.

Juan Palomino: [44:01] There was a project early on in my career that I was working on a distributed ledger for, like a fintech company through an agency. And the whole story was that they had spent so much money on getting this approval process to work across different time zones and different locales and it was just such a huge project to build this distributed ledger of systems that are approved by people. And it's like, that's literally like the use case for like a lot of these blockchain apps.

Chuck Carpenter: [44:30] I mean, I think it's a trustable paper trail, which I think is interesting. I think the smart contracts can provide that. I mean, you think about like a high-level use case if you had a home that was in foreclosure, and in that circumstance, you have no idea. You're transacting with the bank, kind of, and potentially mortgage products, and since it's in foreclosure, you have no idea the last time the roof was replaced. Right. But if you had a contract that was tracking that over time and giving you that information, and not either like trusting access to an owner or a bunch of paper bills or whatever else, that like, there's a contract that's only associated to that particular property and then gets everything attached to it over time. Even in a foreclosure situation, you have trust there because here you go. Here's the trust contract. I know. It was replaced two years ago. Perfect. Oh, it was replaced ten years ago. I'm making a smart financial decision based on what I know. Maintenance things need to be done.

Robbie Wagner: [45:32] Yeah, look us up on Deed.io, the new product we're building. No.

Chuck Carpenter: [45:38] You better go register that right now. You mentioned DAOs, and one of the ones that I have been coming back to and recommending to people that are curious about the basics of the space. There's one called Odyssey DAO, and they have like this twelve-day email series that you can subscribe to, and it just does very basic things. What is Bitcoin? What's? An NFT? What's a DAO? And they created this DAO all about learning. So they're going to do open office chats about hardware, wallets, and just different things like that. So they're trying to create a bunch of just learning materials and meeting sessions and kind of like online meetups, stuff like that. And I can really dig where that's coming from. They're not trying to get people rich. They're trying to get people informed on the space.

Juan Palomino: [46:32] That's a huge opportunity right now. It's just like, who's documenting all this stuff, and who's writing it all out there? When I was looking for help with this stuff, there's not like a bunch of stack overflow articles on this. There's a handful of guys and gals who are working on this stuff whenever they can, and tracking them down is kind of tough.

Chuck Carpenter: [46:51] Yeah.

Juan Palomino: [46:52] But yeah, there's so many use cases, I think, and one of the ones that I saw recently was so I'm working on getting my private pilot license, and every pilot that has a license needs to be able to track all of their hours, like, where they took off from the inspection on the plane. All of that stuff needs to be recorded and audited by the FAA at a moment's notice. And the way that they do it is they will get, like, a tiny scrap of paper and then possibly laminate it, possibly just fold it up and then keep it on the airplane. And so you can imagine how that's like, if you're flying with an FAA inspector and you don't have it, now you're grounded. And so, like, pulling all of that onto the blockchain, where now instead of me auditing whether or not I wrote it, is that a seven, is that a two? Whatever. All of the records for the airplane are now all committed to a distributed public ledger. There's no more guesswork. Right. You don't have to trust. You can just verify. And I think use cases like that are going to be some of the cases where we see it roll out, and we're like, oh, man, yeah, duh, why haven't we been doing it that way? And I think it's just a virtual machine that everybody agreed, like, yeah, let's run those nodes, and that's the truth. So, like, the whole proof of work, proof of stake thing, like, whichever side of the fence you lie on on that thing, it's all, at the end of the day, just a way to not have to trust and to just be able to verify.

Chuck Carpenter: [48:16] I didn't know you're such a Reagan fan.

Juan Palomino: [48:18] I'm a Reagan fan, like Ronald.

Chuck Carpenter: [48:21] Yes. It's one of his most famous quotes. Trust but verify. No. Okay.

Juan Palomino: [48:27] Oh, no.

Robbie Wagner: [48:28] He's saying the opposite.

Juan Palomino: [48:29] Yeah, I'm not saying that. A, I didn't know that was a Reagan quote. So my B.

Chuck Carpenter: [48:34] No, that's all right. I'm older than both of you combined, probably.

Juan Palomino: [48:38] I don't want to have to trust. I don't want to have to use my emotions to say, like, is this good or not? Financially, from this perspective, can I trust that this is going to happen the way I want it to? I want to just be able to verify and say, like, yeah, by the end of this block, this transaction is going to happen because of this, this, and this, or it's not.

Chuck Carpenter: [48:55] Oh, t-shirt idea. Trust because I verified.

Robbie Wagner: [49:00] There it is.

Juan Palomino: [49:01] Start printing them.

Chuck Carpenter: [49:02] Web3.

Robbie Wagner: [49:03] So we're we're running out of time here.

Juan Palomino: [49:05] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [49:05] One thing, Chuck, you had said you had something you needed to bring up after NFT, so what was it?

Chuck Carpenter: [49:10] Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah, I know. We started to kind of dive down the rabbit hole of his hobbies and flying. We didn't even talk about his drone-up session, but okay, so speaking of.

Robbie Wagner: [49:23] We can maybe get to that. Just tell me what your thing is real quick.

Chuck Carpenter: [49:26] You can't help. So we were talking about NFTs, the community thing, Twitter, blah, blah, and inevitably, just kind of like with an Oculus, you have to have a Facebook account because they suck. Basically. To be in the NFT world and figure out what's going on, you have to be on Twitter. And they make it very inconvenient if you don't have an account. So I have one now that I have not told anyone about, just for that fact. So I'm kind of back back on Twitter.

Robbie Wagner: [49:53] Are you at Chuck Carpenter?

Chuck Carpenter: [49:55] No. Guess someone stole that, like, probably 4 seconds after I deleted my account.

Robbie Wagner: [50:00] Charles W Carpenter, the third.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:02] Pretty close. They don't give you that many characters.

Juan Palomino: [50:05] Of course not.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:06] I don't even remember what I am. Oh, Charles W the 3rd. Exactly like that. So, Charles, w the number 3rd? Third. Enjoy.

Juan Palomino: [50:18] Lean in. Yeah, why not?

Chuck Carpenter: [50:20] Yeah, that was the other, like, we were talking about Twitter, and then we were talking about more, my aristocratic-sounding name. So I just leaned into it.

Juan Palomino: [50:28] Yeah, it's like me with the name puns. I can't help but lean into it. So I'm at Juan for the money.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:36] Yeah, that's right.

Robbie Wagner: [50:38] Yeah. I've noticed you have a lot of them.

Juan Palomino: [50:39] Yeah, it's Obi Juan.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:42] That's probably my favorite.

Juan Palomino: [50:43] Juan 2 3 was in high school when I did the morning announcements and pep rallies.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:49] Of course you did.

Juan Palomino: [50:50] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:51] Obi-Wan is, like, the best. I can't wait for that show.

Juan Palomino: [50:55] It's going to be amazing.

Robbie Wagner: [50:57] Yeah. Have you watched the Boba Fett?

Juan Palomino: [51:00] I just started watching it, so I got COVID not too long ago and was just like, what to do? Because body don't worky. So watched Boba Fett.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:11] Did your mom deliver tacos?

Juan Palomino: [51:13] She delivered albondigas and frijoles charros. So no tacos this time. So frijoles charros are just a medley of pork rinds and sausage and beans and various accoutrement.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:31] Okay.

Juan Palomino: [51:32] Really good.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:32] I want that.

Juan Palomino: [51:33] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:33] Is that at your restaurant?

Juan Palomino: [51:34] No, that's like a home thing. She doesn't serve that at the restaurant, but Nick had requested it, so we might dip into that.

Chuck Carpenter:[51:42] Okay, let me know where that's at. I will drive to the West Side for that because that sounds amazing.

Juan Palomino:[51:48] There it is. Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:49] I want something you cannot get anywhere else. That's a must. At your house.

Juan Palomino: [51:54] In my home. In my parent's home.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:56] Yes. I want to go to your parents’ home. Just don't bring the vid.

Robbie Wagner:[52:00] Hi. I heard you have food.

Chuck Carpenter: [52:02] I heard you have food. I'm here. I'm here for the homemade food.

Juan Palomino: [52:06] You know Juan, right? Yeah. He sent me.

Chuck Carpenter: [52:09] One, two, three. I'm here.

Juan Palomino: [52:11] Yes. Another thing about my parents, I met this NFT artist who's, like, doing these scribbles on Facebook, and he's like, oh, look at my NFTs, whatever. And he's got some really cool stuff that he does by hand, and he is also raising money for, like, mental health. And I, like, just commissioned this this art for my parents' anniversary. And, like, he does both hands doing scribbles at the same time, and he's like, hey if you want a free one, I'll toss one in for buying these two. And it's just so incredible how much talent is out there. And I think without this space of the NFT space, for all its quirks and mishappings and lost gas fees, has really turned me on to the art world and has exposed me to a whole different way of creating stuff and connected a lot of people that I might not have been connected with otherwise. So if nothing else, it's been a great experiment so far.

Chuck Carpenter: [53:05] Yeah, definitely. It's definitely interesting. No matter what, no matter where it lands, I think it's interesting.

Juan Palomino: [53:10] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [53:11] All right, well, we are at time about, so thanks, everybody, for listening. And if you liked it, please subscribe, and we'll catch you next time.

Juan Palomino: [53:19] Thanks for having me on, fellows. Appreciate you.

Robbie Wagner: [53:22] Want to do your outro, Chuck?

Chuck Carpenter: [53:24] Me? No. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Thanks for listening to Whiskey Web and Whatnot. This podcast is brought to you by Ship Shape and produced by Podcast Royale. If you like this episode, consider sharing it with a friend or two and leave us a rating, maybe a review. As long as it's good.

Robbie Wagner: [53:50] You can subscribe to future episodes on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more info about Ship Shape and this show, check out our website at ship shape.io.